Well! I am NOT going to learn all that crap!
I'm taking the DX-1 off the F3AF and sticking with a DE-3.
I'm taking the DX-1 off the F3AF and sticking with a DE-3.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I had to give up my reading of the California Vehicle Code, so I could have enough time to read the manual for my Pentax K10d.
dexdog
Veteran
Frankly, I have never understood or believed that any camera needs more than half a dozen autofocus points. Being accustomed to manual focus SLRs, I use the center autofocus point as a guide on my Canon 40D, and tweak the focus as needed in manual mode. Pretty easy to switch from auto to manual focus on both cameras (yeah, I have used Nikons and Canons, both are fine quality products). In my experience, auto focus is dead on about 80% of the time- the hard part is remembering which
aperture I have set on the lens.
As a bonus, the auto focus is a lot faster than I am capable of, which leaves me with a little "extra" time to correct the focus, finalize the framing, and take the exposure
aperture I have set on the lens.
As a bonus, the auto focus is a lot faster than I am capable of, which leaves me with a little "extra" time to correct the focus, finalize the framing, and take the exposure
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willie_901
Veteran
I know exactly how you feel. At first I had the exact same response myself. Using thee D200/300/700 AF system is a bit overwhelming at first. Still, it's a valuable skill to have once you get the hang of it.
Set the AF selector to the S mode. Some people hold the camera in a way that moves the AF selector switch by accident. In the beginning it pays to make sure the switch is actually set to S if AF lock seems hard to achieve.
Set the focus mode selector to single point.
Set the focus actuation (using the menus) to the use the button on the camera back instead of the default shutter depressed half-way mode.
Press the focus button and then select the sensor focus point with the thumb wheel. The lens should focus if there's enough contrast at the focal point. When the focus is confirmed by the green dot, press the shutter.
Turn off the AF assist light. It's useless and just wastes battery life.
C mode for moving objects is more complicated, but it works really well for action photography.
Setting the camera so it will only fire when AF is locked may help you practice.
I do enjoy using my MF lenses too, but the Nikon AF system works well once you become comfortable with it. I shot a gymnastics meet (rotten light, no flash allowed) using a 50/1.8 AF lens. The system (in C mode) tracked the gymnasts moving on a balance beam automatically once it locked on. I could get all the shots in a 4 frame burst in focus. Candid people shots are also easy to shoot with the system. The trick (in S mode) is getting used to using the thumbwheel to quickly select the focus point.
Set the AF selector to the S mode. Some people hold the camera in a way that moves the AF selector switch by accident. In the beginning it pays to make sure the switch is actually set to S if AF lock seems hard to achieve.
Set the focus mode selector to single point.
Set the focus actuation (using the menus) to the use the button on the camera back instead of the default shutter depressed half-way mode.
Press the focus button and then select the sensor focus point with the thumb wheel. The lens should focus if there's enough contrast at the focal point. When the focus is confirmed by the green dot, press the shutter.
Turn off the AF assist light. It's useless and just wastes battery life.
C mode for moving objects is more complicated, but it works really well for action photography.
Setting the camera so it will only fire when AF is locked may help you practice.
I do enjoy using my MF lenses too, but the Nikon AF system works well once you become comfortable with it. I shot a gymnastics meet (rotten light, no flash allowed) using a 50/1.8 AF lens. The system (in C mode) tracked the gymnasts moving on a balance beam automatically once it locked on. I could get all the shots in a 4 frame burst in focus. Candid people shots are also easy to shoot with the system. The trick (in S mode) is getting used to using the thumbwheel to quickly select the focus point.
Jmiothy
Member
My auto focus lenses are great. The lenses have a little switch with two positions:-AF and M. I set it to M and everythings fine.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Buy an EOS A2 & EF 50/1.4. Put in battery. Attach lens. Load film. Have camera that "just works".
Canon pissed off every FD owner by throwing out backwards compatibility. But the T80 proved, to them, how bad the path eventually taken by Nikon could be. Instead, they built the best autofocus system available. Period.
Nikon has refused to accept that lesson and has consistently crippled their AF system. This might come off as partisan nikon/canon bickering, but the reality is that I was one of those with FD glass that felt raped by Canon in the day. It's taken a long effing time to accept that what they did was the right thing.
In the end, if you need real AF on a professional level, you will, like the rest, buy a Canon. If you can get by with it's limitations (aka you're an amature) you can stay with Nikon. Sorry to be blunt but that's the reality of 2009.
Hope this is of some help,
William
Axel
singleshooter
Oh this thread was very helpful for me!
Rtfm of my digital EOS, set C.fn4 to 1 and were happy (AF only when * is pressed).
Now I´m going out to shoot film and think about modern technology
is growing up to the performance of my M6 step by step
Kind regards, Axel
Rtfm of my digital EOS, set C.fn4 to 1 and were happy (AF only when * is pressed).
Now I´m going out to shoot film and think about modern technology
is growing up to the performance of my M6 step by step
Kind regards, Axel
Mattikk
Well-known
After owning the Sigma 30mm F1.4 I would make sure is to not use non-nikkors on a Nikon camera.
Chris101
summicronia
Really??
You point the little rectangle in the viewfinder (until you are comfortable with it, use the center one) at the thing you want to be in focus, then take the shot. The camera will focus the lens automatically. I find this to be a timesaver. If you are shooting from the hip, or for 'interesting' effects, use manual. I can't see there is a half hour of stuff to learn.
You ask about AF-S vs AF-C. AF-S means single shot. You push the button, and the lens focusses, then the shutter fires. AF-C means continous. The lens continously focusses on the target. When you push the button, the shutter fires no matter if the lens has acquired focus or not. So you could use AF-C for hip-shooting and once in a while, luck out.
I remember when the real debate about autofocus happened - it was the early 80's. An interesting historic tidbit: Leica patented the contrast detecting autofocus that is the basis for all modern systems about a decade before it became common.
You point the little rectangle in the viewfinder (until you are comfortable with it, use the center one) at the thing you want to be in focus, then take the shot. The camera will focus the lens automatically. I find this to be a timesaver. If you are shooting from the hip, or for 'interesting' effects, use manual. I can't see there is a half hour of stuff to learn.
You ask about AF-S vs AF-C. AF-S means single shot. You push the button, and the lens focusses, then the shutter fires. AF-C means continous. The lens continously focusses on the target. When you push the button, the shutter fires no matter if the lens has acquired focus or not. So you could use AF-C for hip-shooting and once in a while, luck out.
I remember when the real debate about autofocus happened - it was the early 80's. An interesting historic tidbit: Leica patented the contrast detecting autofocus that is the basis for all modern systems about a decade before it became common.
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M4cr0s
Back In Black
Crippled? CRIPPLED? What planet are you living on? Both Nikons and Canons AF systems are excellent and work very well. The difference is that the Canon consumer line, 450D, 1000D (dunno about 500D) has some AF issues whereas Nikons cheap offerings mostly work fine. They don't exactly have 51 focus points and stuff though. Canons low-end AF have a tendency to be blistering fast, but sometimes not all that accurate. Nikons is a tiny bit slower (milliseconds) but more certain. The high-end AF systems of both manufactorers are both designed to do one thing in particular: track moving targets all across the frame, and allowing flexible composition. Be that racecars, birds, 4 year olds or kangaroos.
Nikon are still klinging to the F-mount, surely not always practical, but I really fail to see how that limits the performance of the AF, and their present-day glas is no worse than Canons. The F-mount do for instance make adaption of lenses from other manufactorers tricky though, but that really haven't got anything with AF to do.
Sorry for a somewhat harsh reply, and I'm not really in for a Canon vs Nikon, but I think you need to moderate/clarify your statements a bit m8! Saying that the AF system of one of the two brands of choice for sports photographers is crippled is just a bit over the top
/Mac
Chris101
summicronia
I was screwed by Canon in 1984 as well. So I am completely in bed with Nikon now. I don't even like their cameras that much. But they do what I need, so I use 'em.
But I do consider the recent change to two levels of AF-S, SWM and non-SWM, to be a crippling of their autofocus for the basic consumer lenses. Some newer Nikkor lenses, particularly kit lenses for new cameras, have internal motor autofocus that does not use Nikon's "silent wave motor" technology. These lenses are bulkier, louder and slower than they would have been if swm had been used.
This says nothing about the decision to obsolete their camera motor driven lenses. While this older technology is loud - and slow on the lower priced cameras - it keeps the lens design simple, and really zooms on the top end cameras. There is not an AF-S lens that can beat a similar AF lens on my F5. But I understand how increasing the cost of the camera is worse to the company's profitability than leaving AF out of the camera body. Nikon had already figured that out with the VR decision.
But do these decisions leave us with the best possible photographic instruments?
ulrikft
Established
I don't really get the big deal here.
You can choose between manual, continous or single shot focus, you can choose between camera choosing af-point for you, or you choosing af point yourself, you can choose between shutter or af-lock priority...
I mean, if you don't want to read a 20-30 page manual when buying a new camera, why bother?
You can choose between manual, continous or single shot focus, you can choose between camera choosing af-point for you, or you choosing af point yourself, you can choose between shutter or af-lock priority...
I mean, if you don't want to read a 20-30 page manual when buying a new camera, why bother?
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Which compares better or worse with Olympus owners? Actually, as an Olympus owner, I don't know.
I guess the history and rationale is interesting at some level. However, I think I'd take issue with the very general nature of your statement. I can't comment on pro-level cameras but can say that at even one step down Canon's cameras aren't quite so good (I have a 50D and a 5D, which I'm told the 5DmkII doesn't much improve on in the AF department). While I've not worked with them, the AF system on the Nikon D300 and above looks to have advantages over the non-pro Canons. I don't have a dog in this fight (I'm a Canon owner) but I'm just saying...
...Mike
M4cr0s
Back In Black
That last question there is a very good question. What defines the best possible photographic instrument? Different criteria for different people I'm sure. Some will say a camera that makes the higest quality images, because after all the camera is just a tool, what matters is images. Some will say the camera that handles best for you and feels "right", often thinking that a camera you feel one with leaves more time and energy for the creative process. Some will say that the camera that offers the widest range of lenses accessories and features. Some will say all of these plus the price point.
It can in fact be very frustrating these days if you're trying to figure your way through the DSLR jungle. For an average Joe Sixpack every brand has it's pro's and con's. Some have dim viewfinders and small sensors, some brands are very small (marked share) thus getting your hands on lenses and accessories can be difficult, some brands heavily rob their lower end cameras for features as to make clear "class" differences and we haven't even mentioned the lens lineups!
As for Nikons decisions regarding the whole AF-S, VR, SWM shebang, this is even more complicated than it seems. There are "grades" of both VR and SWM, obviously the higher end lenses (typically the F/2.8s and 2.0s) have a slight edge here. I can hardly advocate their decisions, but fact remains that the Canon (or any other brands) lenses are compromises too and come in different grades/classes. Basically, you get what you pay for. While backwards compatibility is preferable, I'm thinking the most important thing is that there are in fact lenses available for your brand/camera that works and does the job.
Now, Nikons present day kit lenses are the
18-55vr
55-200vr
18-105vr
and to a lesser extent the
16-85vr
70-300vr
All these are "G" SWM VR lenses, pretty compact and fairly cheap (relatively speaking). One or more of these are the lenses a D5000, D60, D90 or D300 will be sold with if it's a kit. The lack of in-body motor in the low-end bodies is of course a PITA, no question about it, but there's mostly always a Nikon or 3rd party option in any given focal length/speed with in-lens motor (if not necessarily SWM/HSM) available.
/Mac
Personally screwed by Canon? 25 years ago? It was a conspiracy to ruin your camera collection?
Did your old cameras stop working? Did the lenses implode?
This is a bizarre statement.
gavinlg
Veteran
I think you got a bit overwhelmed. Basically you sset the cam to 51 point 3D (and forget) and switch between AF Auto (works just fine mostly) or use AF-S for stationary targets and AF-C for continuous tracking (also work fine if you lock focus on a stationary target with the center focus point and recompose). Alternatively if you want more direct control, AF-S and using the thumbpad to set focus point is also a very valid technique. It's not that difficult
/Mac
Possibly my brain doesn't work particularly well with the nikon menu system and their AF system options, but I'm a mentally fit, technically savvy 21 year old brought up around massive amounts of modern tech and I can figure anything out in seconds. It's not that I couldn't figure out what everything was for, it's just that there are so many strange options in the system I was constantly trying to figure out what exactly I should be using to maximize the AF.
Canon doesn't really have anything like the "dynamic AF modes" and I still haven't really figured out exactly what the advantage of these added customizations are over say a Canon 1d system, which is a lot more simple to configure and works just as well.
I could be wrong (had my d300 a year ago now) but I remember using the camera in 51 point mode with 3d tracking which is supposedly using the best technology nikon has to offer, and the camera focussing on something other than what I wanted (say - something with more contrast) but within the 51pt 3d tracking mode you can't just choose to only use the single point to focus/recompose. Something like that. I didn't really understand what the point of that was - The whole 51pt 3d tracking thing sounds good in theory but I found it's only really useful in good light where the subject has good contrasty lines - like tracking a bird in c-af mode. If the background has contrasty lines and the subjects contrast is low, like an animal against a forest background it'll focus on the background instead of the animal. I was sort of left thinking - "exactly what is the point of this system?"
The other thing that bugged the crap out of me was that focus mode selection switch near the lens. No matter what I did under decent continuous use I kept knocking it from s-af to c-af and mf. I'd carry the camera to a different vantage point on (say) the racetrack I was shooting on, see a good shot, raise and press the AF-L button to af (custom parameter) and it wouldn't focus because I knocked that damn switch to MF. Argh.
My 5d works like this: I have S-af and C-af. I use center point all the time unless I have good light and I am using a fast lens and don't want to focus/recompose where i'll use out points singularly instead. If I am shooting documentary stuff with a large dof, I'll use all focus points. It focuses faster than both the d300 and the d3, point to point, but maybe not as accurately.
Yes, you can just do the same thing in the d300/d3 but then why are all those extra focus modes there? And why do they all tie in with each other so much - Why is it that when using one of the modes, you can only do limited things with the other options - that's just confusing and hard to remember/get your head around...
Sorry for the massive rant, I really like nikon cameras but that AF system put me off big time, and I can sympathize with the OP - that and the lack of afs primes.
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gavinlg
Veteran
This is one area where nikon beats canon IMO is their cheap kit lenses - they're generally better than their price suggests.
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Nikon users like using older lenses on modern DSLR cameras. Canon users do not have this luxury. If you want the "Look and Feel" of the classic glass on a modern camera, Nikon is the way to go for DSLR's and AF-SLR's.
If you want all-AF starting with lenses in the mid-80s, Canon is not going to lose you anything. I would not buy one, it can't take my FD mount 50/1.4 SSC.
If you want all-AF starting with lenses in the mid-80s, Canon is not going to lose you anything. I would not buy one, it can't take my FD mount 50/1.4 SSC.
pvdhaar
Peter
Unless you're restricted to AFS-only bodies (i.e. the d40/x, D60, D5000) I see no reason to lament the lack of AFS lenses. For what it's worth, the AF speed is better on many screwdriver lenses than on their AFS equivalents. It all depends on the gearing. Some screwdriver lenses are geared for precision (60/2.8), others for speed (35-70/2.8).
As a side note, some lens reviewers claim that AFS lenses are less prone to hunting than screwdrives types, but I see no difference. Max. aperture and gearing are the only things that really matter.
pvdhaar
Peter
More precisely, they are all AF-S lenses, but the 18-55 and 55-200 are not SWM lenses. Both have no manual focus override in AF mode. There's also the sound that gives it away.. there's a profound difference in how the 18-55 churns like a little lego motor, and the 70-300 hisses its way to focus.