danielsterno
making soup from mud
All:
Would value your feedback re: Giving Leica a try? quick background re-cameras/me. i'm early 50's with a 25 year old mind, played with film camera's over time: minolta 101/nikon's in art school, slr's, P&S etc. but they are gone except for a Contax Tvs few rolls a month. Only casually shot UNTIL i got a Fuji x100 less than a year ago and find that I am obsessed with it-it has a soul-best money I ever spent. While waiting to see if a XProII is coming being I prefer the Hybrid OVF otherwise I'll get a new XE1. I am an artist, painter/drawings. FYI: in a wheelchair so I am not traveling, shooting mostly very local, at the moment. So back to my question: Start with a film Leica? Used M8 with one decent lens? Being its 2013, some would argue -why spend that kind of money and being its digital now, the fuji's, OMD's are pushing out some incredible images. Is it too late? I am really curious what I am missing on the cameras interaction being the x100 gives me so much pleasure. A friend brought his M6 over and I enjoyed the feel but thats 30 minutes....BTW:I am not rich & realize its not cheap to get into L world but would like to try it, worse case I'll sell it and lose a few bucks....thanks and hope this makes sense...your thoughts?
Would value your feedback re: Giving Leica a try? quick background re-cameras/me. i'm early 50's with a 25 year old mind, played with film camera's over time: minolta 101/nikon's in art school, slr's, P&S etc. but they are gone except for a Contax Tvs few rolls a month. Only casually shot UNTIL i got a Fuji x100 less than a year ago and find that I am obsessed with it-it has a soul-best money I ever spent. While waiting to see if a XProII is coming being I prefer the Hybrid OVF otherwise I'll get a new XE1. I am an artist, painter/drawings. FYI: in a wheelchair so I am not traveling, shooting mostly very local, at the moment. So back to my question: Start with a film Leica? Used M8 with one decent lens? Being its 2013, some would argue -why spend that kind of money and being its digital now, the fuji's, OMD's are pushing out some incredible images. Is it too late? I am really curious what I am missing on the cameras interaction being the x100 gives me so much pleasure. A friend brought his M6 over and I enjoyed the feel but thats 30 minutes....BTW:I am not rich & realize its not cheap to get into L world but would like to try it, worse case I'll sell it and lose a few bucks....thanks and hope this makes sense...your thoughts?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
If you can afford to buy the gear, then do it. When I say 'afford it', I mean can you afford to put the money into buying a good working camera body and at least one lens without needing o get the money back out of it. I say that because if you do like it, you won't want to sell it, so the money will remain tied up in it. If you cannot afford to do that, then don't...there are MANY good camera systems you can get into for FAR less than Leica that take just as good of photos.
mfogiel
Veteran
It's not about Leica, it's about if you are willing to shoot film. If you mainly shoot colour, then a film camera is a waste of time. Film cameras are mainly about B&W now, so it is up to you. I find that you can have a lot of pleasure using SLR film cameras too, particularly if you like portraiture or table top photography. You could get a Pentax ME Super with the 50/1.4 for a 100 USD nowadays - great quality for cheap.
Nikon F2 w 105/2.5 P total cost: 300 USD
20129403 by mfogiel, on Flickr
Nikon F2 w 105/2.5 P total cost: 300 USD
20129403 by mfogiel, on Flickr
kxl
Social Documentary
If I had absolutely NO gear today, I would get an M6 and a 50mm Summicron and I would use that and only that for as long as I can.
Vics
Veteran
You already have a camera you love! Just keep shooting with it! Don't get caught up in this gear merry-go-round.
danielsterno
making soup from mud
It's not about Leica, it's about if you are willing to shoot film. If you mainly shoot colour, then a film camera is a waste of time. Film cameras are mainly about B&W now, so it is up to you. I find that you can have a lot of pleasure using SLR film cameras too, particularly if you like portraiture or table top photography. You could get a Pentax ME Super with the 50/1.4 for a 100 USD nowadays - great quality for cheap.
Nikon F2 w 105/2.5 P total cost: 300 USD
20129403 by mfogiel, on Flickr
thanks for the feedback: you touched on one of my thoughts- this camera can be for B&W film Leica or not. I mainly shoot B&W on my x100 and on the Contax. The film from the contax gets processed/printed/converted to digital locally...
danielsterno
making soup from mud
kxl
Social Documentary
As an artist, I'm sure part of what you enjoy is the process and not just the result, right?
I spoke for myself because I do develop my own B&W negatives (then scan them), but if you do not develop your own film, then IMHO, either 1) learn to do it (it's not that difficult) or 2) shoot digital. Part of the joy I get from shooting B&W film is developing it myself.
Just my $0.02.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
And my take is this: it depends on how you "think" while you make images. If from your film days and the manual cameras you appreciate evaluating light, and you see the image in your head and how it's lit, and you know how much DOF you want... in other words if you control all of the aspects of the image in your head, and then set the camera to record what you "see" the way YOU want to show it, then a Leica may indeed work for you.
If, on the other hand, you just want to frame the image and you don't care if the camera creates your vision for you, then your X100 is your best bet. I like digital and switched from film over ten years ago, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot film... I just like the convenience of digital.
Whether you go Leica film or M8 is purely a matter of preference and how much you're willing to spend. The nice thing, of course, is that once you're invested in lenses that will work on an M camera, they'll work with both digital and film so you're not limited.
If, on the other hand, you just want to frame the image and you don't care if the camera creates your vision for you, then your X100 is your best bet. I like digital and switched from film over ten years ago, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot film... I just like the convenience of digital.
Whether you go Leica film or M8 is purely a matter of preference and how much you're willing to spend. The nice thing, of course, is that once you're invested in lenses that will work on an M camera, they'll work with both digital and film so you're not limited.
danielsterno
making soup from mud
To your point, how I work with the x100 is how it will let me capture the light & how I see it. framing the content is my eye regardless of what camera.... I realize the x100 may be giving more ISO than what the m8 or m9 will offer but I believe with the far superior glass I believe I will be able to expand on in addition to what the x100 is offering.... thanks for your insight...
segedi
RFicianado
Advice from someone with too many cameras...
You tried the Leica and the novelty was fleeting. The X100 has soul for you. Stick with it!
Your end product is digital, so I think that for you, shooting a ton of film doesn't make sense. Financially and otherwise.
Better, sharper, faster lenses will never improve your eye.
You tried the Leica and the novelty was fleeting. The X100 has soul for you. Stick with it!
Your end product is digital, so I think that for you, shooting a ton of film doesn't make sense. Financially and otherwise.
Better, sharper, faster lenses will never improve your eye.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Or, do you want to be a Leica owner/user or a B&W film user?
I ask as there are dozens if not hundreds of film cameras out there selling for pennies upwards to thousands and most of them take good/excellent pictures with B&W film.
A FED 2 and a Jupiter-8 would do it perfectly imo and save you a fortune. And I've often compared that combination with my M6 and so on. They both have advantages and disadvantages.
Or you could look at some of the Olympus35 range which offer a RF and very good to excellent lenses and so on and then there's AF P&S's ...
Regards, David
Or, do you want to be a Leica owner/user or a B&W film user?
I ask as there are dozens if not hundreds of film cameras out there selling for pennies upwards to thousands and most of them take good/excellent pictures with B&W film.
A FED 2 and a Jupiter-8 would do it perfectly imo and save you a fortune. And I've often compared that combination with my M6 and so on. They both have advantages and disadvantages.
Or you could look at some of the Olympus35 range which offer a RF and very good to excellent lenses and so on and then there's AF P&S's ...
Regards, David
hepcat
Former PH, USN
First, a follow-up question: are you shooting your X100 fully manual? I had and sold an X-Pro1 recently because, although the controls are there for ISO, SS, and aperture, IMHO it almost prohibited me from using it manually because of the way the manual focus doesn't work.
Second, don't get caught up in the "high ISO" nonsense. ASA 400 was considered fast in the film world for many years, and folks made amazing images with Kodachrome at ASA 12 and later at a blazing ASA 25. High-Speed Ektachrome was ASA 160!!! No one needs ISO 10,000 to make good images.
With images from the digital M cameras, much can be done with the .dng files that seem to me to have much more information than raw images from some of the other brands. It's pretty amazing what you can bring out of them.
There are only three reasons for switching to a Leica system from the X100: 1) Leica is natively entirely manual with some provision for aperture priority and auto-ISO; 2) Interchangeable lenses; and 3) a manual bright-line rangefinder focus system.
You have to defeat the auto systems in the Fuji cameras to make them manual. You have to set the Leica to use automation if you want it. While that may not seem like a huge distinction, in practice they are very different philosophies. If you want to control all of the aspects of making the image, the Leica is built for that. That's the real difference. As far as image quality goes, the images will have a little different look, but both the Fuji and the Leica images will only be as good as you are.
kshapero
South Florida Man
You could always shoot digital and PP with DXO Film Pack. The ultimate pretend.
ktmrider
Well-known
Both Excellent Ways to Go
Both Excellent Ways to Go
Have both Leicas (M2 andM6) & X100. Enjoy both so if you want to try an M, give it a go. You can always sell it for what you paid for it. Check out Putt's site. His comparison of the X100 and M9 makes excellent reading (concludes M9 is better but just by a hair). And for the money, the X100.
Both Excellent Ways to Go
Have both Leicas (M2 andM6) & X100. Enjoy both so if you want to try an M, give it a go. You can always sell it for what you paid for it. Check out Putt's site. His comparison of the X100 and M9 makes excellent reading (concludes M9 is better but just by a hair). And for the money, the X100.
crispy12
Well-known
High ISO can be very useful, just because photographers of old didn't need it doesn't mean it's not a good tool, the x100 can shoot at f5.6 very comfortably indoors, something I dare anyone try even with an M9.
I suggest you start with something like an M2 with one lens of your preferred focal length, and learn to develop your own film. It will never replace your x100 but will give you something different at an affordable price. Shooting meter less will also change up your experience and teach you much about light.
I have an M6 but the build is different from older cameras like m2 and m3, it's also more expensive for just another body with essentially the same function.
I suggest you start with something like an M2 with one lens of your preferred focal length, and learn to develop your own film. It will never replace your x100 but will give you something different at an affordable price. Shooting meter less will also change up your experience and teach you much about light.
I have an M6 but the build is different from older cameras like m2 and m3, it's also more expensive for just another body with essentially the same function.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
This might not help but I'll say it anyway. I use an old M4 with second hand Leica lenses and process and print b&w results myself. I know from experience that giving it to local labs where I live results in images that could have been taken with much cheaper equipment. At least develop your films as mentioned in one of the posts. Also you might consider a used Voigtlander and get a used Leica lens for it. I also use that combination. I realise you might not be as obsessive about prints as I am anyway and your lab might be just fine. Apologies for the ramble. Have fun.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I don't think I can answer the question for you, but I can tell you of my own thinking.
I have three Rolleiflex TLR's and two Nikkormat FTn's that I hardly ever use.
I have a Fuji X10 digital that I use for "happy snaps" and also for location shots that I think I might turn into nice watercolours. I'm not particularly careful about how how I frame my digital shots and I use the camera on fully automatic and jpeg output all the time. Nice little camera with some usefulness but too many control options to bother with using manually and it's consequently just a tool and a bit 'soul-less'.
I use film for B&W, develop the films myself using a daylight developing tank but use a scanner and digital printer as the easiest and (for me) most satisfying method of getting an image. Dust problems put an end to my ability to make good use of my wet darkroom.
I do this because it's the process of taking the photograph and working with film that I enjoy as much as the final image. I have a Leica M6 that I bought to have the Leica "experience", and it's a great camera - superbly built (i.e.heavy) - but to be honest I think a Voigtlander Bessa R2 (M or A) with Voigtlander lenses does just as good a job but without the expense, the concern about damage or theft but also without the "glow of ownership" which comes with a Leica and which is purely emotional and of no practical value at all.
I had a Bessa R3A which I sold to make way for the M6 and I still have a Bessa R4A which I use for wide, wide angle shots when travelling.
In your position I'd try to overcome the "Leica Lust" and either go for a Bessa if it's a rangefinder you want, or if you want to do close ups and telephoto as well then I'd consider a decent SLR. Then you have to decide if you want to mess with film or go for a DSLR - there are plenty of recently superseded models to choose from.
But you already have a great camera that you like a lot and unless it's not capable of giving you results you want and that you rationally believe can be obtained by using another camera, I'd resist temptation for a while. Maybe try to borrow one and see if it really makes a difference. My guess is that it won't.
I have three Rolleiflex TLR's and two Nikkormat FTn's that I hardly ever use.
I have a Fuji X10 digital that I use for "happy snaps" and also for location shots that I think I might turn into nice watercolours. I'm not particularly careful about how how I frame my digital shots and I use the camera on fully automatic and jpeg output all the time. Nice little camera with some usefulness but too many control options to bother with using manually and it's consequently just a tool and a bit 'soul-less'.
I use film for B&W, develop the films myself using a daylight developing tank but use a scanner and digital printer as the easiest and (for me) most satisfying method of getting an image. Dust problems put an end to my ability to make good use of my wet darkroom.
I do this because it's the process of taking the photograph and working with film that I enjoy as much as the final image. I have a Leica M6 that I bought to have the Leica "experience", and it's a great camera - superbly built (i.e.heavy) - but to be honest I think a Voigtlander Bessa R2 (M or A) with Voigtlander lenses does just as good a job but without the expense, the concern about damage or theft but also without the "glow of ownership" which comes with a Leica and which is purely emotional and of no practical value at all.
I had a Bessa R3A which I sold to make way for the M6 and I still have a Bessa R4A which I use for wide, wide angle shots when travelling.
In your position I'd try to overcome the "Leica Lust" and either go for a Bessa if it's a rangefinder you want, or if you want to do close ups and telephoto as well then I'd consider a decent SLR. Then you have to decide if you want to mess with film or go for a DSLR - there are plenty of recently superseded models to choose from.
But you already have a great camera that you like a lot and unless it's not capable of giving you results you want and that you rationally believe can be obtained by using another camera, I'd resist temptation for a while. Maybe try to borrow one and see if it really makes a difference. My guess is that it won't.
paradoxbox
Well-known
I agree with the above poster, start with a Bessa R first.
If you like wide lenses you may like the leica / rangefinder system.
If you like taking people photos, especially up close or in quiet environments you may also like Leicas as the shutters are pretty silent.
Note that Bessas are fairly noisy (I have one, good camera but noisy shutter)
If you like wide lenses you may like the leica / rangefinder system.
If you like taking people photos, especially up close or in quiet environments you may also like Leicas as the shutters are pretty silent.
Note that Bessas are fairly noisy (I have one, good camera but noisy shutter)
leicapixie
Well-known
I say get the Leica. Not the M8, unless it's really inexpensive! Go for a Leica-M film version. Less cost allowing you to try out the system. One lens is fine! I mostly use the 50mm. My pal Mauro Metallo, "Never in Color", uses a single M4 and 50mm Summicron. MM's work is pure Leica imaging.Well worth a search. BW Film is easy to develop. Color done at lab, get hi-rez scans. If you can manage it, do your own Darkroom printing. An experience better than anything!
Digital is cheaper but long-term doubts are there. Camera obsolescence a real problem, computers continuous evolving. Yesterday i could NOT open files on an earlier file system.. Later tried some CD's that would only show some files.. No smaller SD cards available, for my older point and shoot cameras...They cannot work with 8gb or more. Everybody says digital is better! I've heard that since 2000, when i bought my M6. Film available, often at good prices and labs plus my kitchen darkroom!
Make prints even small ones! I think well housed will be available much longer than digital storage! I have back up drives of back up drives..
Digital is cheaper but long-term doubts are there. Camera obsolescence a real problem, computers continuous evolving. Yesterday i could NOT open files on an earlier file system.. Later tried some CD's that would only show some files.. No smaller SD cards available, for my older point and shoot cameras...They cannot work with 8gb or more. Everybody says digital is better! I've heard that since 2000, when i bought my M6. Film available, often at good prices and labs plus my kitchen darkroom!
Make prints even small ones! I think well housed will be available much longer than digital storage! I have back up drives of back up drives..