Your most used, robust and advanced digital camera

[shawn]

My main worry about all those fancy batteries - apart from the cost - is that we rely on the makers to supply them and when they stop we are cast adrift, so to speak. I know there are dozens of makers out there supplying what appear to be alternatives but I can remember that clip of the laptop that started to smoke and so am very wary of unknown makes of battery.

Regards, David

The only aftermarket batteries I've ever had problems with were for the Sony A7II/IIR series cameras. The aftermarket batteries just didn't charge well and in turn had lousy capacity. I tried several of them and they were all junk. I've used many other aftermarket batteries in other cameras and never had a problem though.

Your concern about the supply for the specific batteries is a potential problem. There are some old, but good, cameras out there that you can no longer purchase a new battery for from any maker. For example, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1, DMC-L1, Leica Digilux 2, Digilux 3 battery hasn't been made by anyone in a number of years so replacements are basically getting lucky finding NOS on ebay and seeing if they will still hold a charge.

On the flip side, some camera makers have essentially standardized a bit on specific batteries so replacements will likely be available for quite some time.

Shawn

 

[Axel]

My battery experiences over the last decades are that the sticker on it got meaningless. I have "Sonys, Fujis, Canons..." and others.
Most are good.
Some not. But there is no relation between the names on it and the time until they failed.
The A33 I showed above has three batteries. Two are a bit weak but still useable.
The first ones which are 12 years old, "originals" (that Sony bought in China) and a newer one that I bought from China 4 years ago.
I can place an order now to get a spare battery for 14,- Euros if I want. Sure I can pay 50,- Euros or more. But I need none.
10 years my experience of lifetime for camera-batteries over all. Time enough.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Not sure about batteries mumblings here. 🙂

It depends on many factors. Made in Japan batteries (for internal market) they say, lasts long.
My Canon made in Japan battery for 500D gave up after seven or so years of intensive recharge. Made in China replacement, crapped out sooner.
Family Canon EOS300 from 1998 or so was on some overpriced CR3 or something common batteries. In 2019 or so China made rechargeable ones. Twenty bucks or so for two batteries and charger. Is it a big deal to change them every five years or so?

Canon 5D series batteries works in several R series cameras. Smart people's move.
Anthropology times Epson R-D1 series used very common batteries, might be still available.

And here is typical "save the planet by paying, buying more" hypocrisy. Mercury based battery could easily lasts 10+ years. At least. How much more pollution on make and recycling is generated on so called "green" batteries... Well kept secret.

 

[Godfrey]

The BLM-5 I bought for my 2003 Olympus E-1 is 13 years old, still going strong. Nets more than twice the exposures per charge vs the original BLM-1 the E-1 came with (the BLM-5 was originally delivered with the E-5). The 2010 Olympus E-5 is still going strong too: the buddy in NY I sold it to uses it in his work almost every day, and no one's complained yet about the image quality it produces.

These Olympus E-System cameras and lenses are superb. The Olympus mFT top-line cameras that followed them in 2013 (E-M1, etc) are also superb. Although I don't use them much any more, for various reasons (but mostly because they're a bit bulky and heavy for every-day carry now), I remain reluctant to let them go.

G

 

[dkreindler]

I have a Ricoh GR II (APS-C). Owned it since 2015, easily 20,000+ shots on it, been carried in my pocket, in backpacks, my car glovebox. It's been fine. No errors, no sensor dust, nothing. I think I need a new battery, as it doesn't seem to last as long, but that's it.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have a Ricoh GR II (APS-C). Owned it since 2015, easily 20,000+ shots on it, been carried in my pocket, in backpacks, my car glovebox. It's been fine. No errors, no sensor dust, nothing. I think I need a new battery, as it doesn't seem to last as long, but that's it.

GRDIII and original GRD here.
III has one lagging lens cover leaf. It has dust on the sensor. No pockets, no cars, backpacks. Only dedicated pouch if not in use.
I already dropped it twice. Still works.
Original has glitchy wheel and hot pixel line (Ricoh introduced hot pixel mapping with later models).
Both sharing same batteries.

 

[David Hughes]

Valid concerns, David, but likely not really warranted by the track record of lithium camera batteries. They're simply not under the same kinds of stresses that the larger, more powerful variants of the type used in portable computers or other larger, higher consumption devices are.

Having had AA powered Pentax DSLRs (and once had that Olympus AA adapter for my E-1 as well), I can easily see the differences in weight, longevity, and capacity. The lithiums win on all performance comparisons! NiMH AAs are far more primitive, require constant maintenance, and have far less capacity. Their only advantage is that you can buy them in large quantities more in expensively, and you often have to...!

G

Well, yes and no.

Up to around the turn of the century rechargeable AA's were fairly basic and - more important - so were the chargers. You put the batteries in them charged for x hours and that was that but when intelligent chargers and AA's with a far greater capacity came along all that changed for the better.

I was somewhat skeptical of them at first and made a note of when I bought the batteries and was amazed 10 or 11 years later that the batteries were still working although starting to fade away rather than fail. At that point I disposed of the two worst ones and kept the other two for a year or so more. So I've no complaints about Ni-MH AA batteries.

The lithium batteries came along after or when intelligent chargers were normal and benefited from them and, of course, didn't have reputation stretching back to the bad old days of leaky low capacity disposable AA batteries.

My main grouse about digital camera batteries is that the makers keep changing them about and stop supplying them after a while. I would like to buy new batteries for my small collection of digital cameras but have to rely on either second-hand camera sellers or else unknown makes on the internet. Not all of them are made to the same standard as the originals and one or two have given me problems. And one or two have such a low capacity (650mAh) that I can't see the advantages of lithium carrying much weight compared to a larger AA (2500 mAh); worse still, the anonymous replacement jammed in the camera and had to be prised out with a penknife and pliers...

With AA batteries I can go to the makers (Duracel etc) and get answers but who do I ask in China when it comes to the only replacement ones available?

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

The only aftermarket batteries I've ever had problems with were for the Sony A7II/IIR series cameras. The aftermarket batteries just didn't charge well and in turn had lousy capacity. I tried several of them and they were all junk. I've used many other aftermarket batteries in other cameras and never had a problem though.

Your concern about the supply for the specific batteries is a potential problem. There are some old, but good, cameras out there that you can no longer purchase a new battery for from any maker. For example, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1, DMC-L1, Leica Digilux 2, Digilux 3 battery hasn't been made by anyone in a number of years so replacements are basically getting lucky finding NOS on ebay and seeing if they will still hold a charge.

On the flip side, some camera makers have essentially standardized a bit on specific batteries so replacements will likely be available for quite some time.

Shawn

Agreed; although I shouldn't admit it I am hoping to buy a Digilux 2 second-hand - of course - and hope the battery problem will make it affordable. Then I shall have to buy a few bits and pieces and make up an external battery pack or else use that wonderful battery charger/AC adapter that was such a neat feature of the Digilux 2 and a couple of others...

Regards, David

 

[shawn]

Agreed; although I shouldn't admit it I am hoping to buy a Digilux 2 second-hand - of course - and hope the battery problem will make it affordable. Then I shall have to buy a few bits and pieces and make up an external battery pack or else use that wonderful battery charger/AC adapter that was such a neat feature of the Digilux 2 and a couple of others...

Regards, David

Good luck on your search. I have a mint DMC-LC1 that I found for a good price and then realized the battery problem after the fact. The battery it came with holds a charge. I eventually found two NOS aftermarket batteries still in their packaging on ebay (for a reasonable price) after a few months of searching. It is a nice camera if shot at base ISO. Ergonomics are almost perfect just wish the metering and power switch positions were flipped. I use it in MF (with the center EVF enlarge focus function) with the evf in B&W. I have seen a few LC1 and L1 in the last couple of months sell for under $100 from dealers.

Shawn

 

[ray*j*gun]

Not the most up to date tech (which I don't care about), my Nikon D610. I recently bought a Sony a6000 (about a year ago), wonderful camera and takes every lens I own with the right adapter. So far has been dead reliable.

 

[Godfrey]

David,

Nearly 100% of my experience using AA NiMH batteries comes from using the Pentax DSLRs in the 2004-2009 time period. I had the best NiMH batteries I could find... at the end, the Sanyo Eneloop, now with other brands carrying them... and the best charger I could find ... La Crosse Technology BC-900... Still have both of them, the charger is still great, the Eneloops are still working 13 years on. I use them in a host of other devices. The Eneloops finally solved the storage problem and maintenance problems of NiMH batteries, in my opinion. In that time, Li-Ion technology batteries, even in AA format, were much more expensive and the benefits of using them questionable. (Actually, the best performance I ever got out of those cameras was with the one-use AA Li cells ... One set of them once lasted me through a four week, 2600 exposure trip.)

However, the first Pentax which had a dedicated, custom form-factor Li-Ion battery (can't remember the name) outperformed on battery life all four of the previous Pentax cameras. The standard BLM-1 in the original Olympus E-1 outlasted the Eneloops in an adapter by a factor of three on a charge. That experience colors my view of this stuff.

That said, I don't disagree with the notion that battery availability will be the death of many an old digital camera. As will parts and service availability, which applies equally to film and digital cameras, and the battery issue can as well affect film cameras. It's why I prefer old mechanical film cameras with no meters, and generally when I move on from a particular digital camera, I don't go back. I loved my old L1, would never buy another now; same for the 2003 E-1 which is delightfully still working as new and the BLM-5s still available easily. Battery life will sound the death knell of my very entertaining and useful Light L16 (non-replaceable battery) just like the availability of a current OS upgrade and apps compatible with modern systems and needs will eventually murder my mid-2012 Mac mini.

As much as these things are lovely, I can't see going back to them over the equally wonderful and better performing current offerings for which batteries, parts, and service are easily available. They are devices, locked into their time, just like my 1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupe is, and it takes a lot of effort and energy to keep them going and usable. You only do that kind of thing because you like them ... the very meaning of amateur involvement in a hobby. Not because it makes any sense.

I can't see much point to complaining about the effort and trials it takes with old cameras, or with old cars, or with old computers, since I know in all ways I can buy a modern, up to date replacement that will outperform them in every particular. And that I even like just as much. I just enjoy the old junk, and find the tribulations of ownership/use part of the charm of messing about with them. 🙂

G

 

[ray*j*gun]

The only aftermarket batteries I've ever had problems with were for the Sony A7II/IIR series cameras. The aftermarket batteries just didn't charge well and in turn had lousy capacity. I tried several of them and they were all junk. I've used many other aftermarket batteries in other cameras and never had a problem though.

Your concern about the supply for the specific batteries is a potential problem. There are some old, but good, cameras out there that you can no longer purchase a new battery for from any maker. For example, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LC1, DMC-L1, Leica Digilux 2, Digilux 3 battery hasn't been made by anyone in a number of years so replacements are basically getting lucky finding NOS on ebay and seeing if they will still hold a charge.

On the flip side, some camera makers have essentially standardized a bit on specific batteries so replacements will likely be available for quite some time.

Shawn

I have also had issues with aftermarket batteries for my Sony A6000. I am concerned about batteries for my M8.

 

[sojournerphoto]

I’ve had various digital cameras over the years. My current ‘main’ (and possibly soon, only) digi is a Panasonic S1r. It seems to be very robust and useable, but time will tell. For now I’ve got various old manual focus lenses (Zeiss ZF plus some Pentax and Canon and my rangefinder lenses too I suppose) and a Sigma 105 macro that is primarily for film scanning.

I’ve also got a Pentax K1 that seems well made, but is really an af only camera in my experience.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I’ve had various digital cameras over the years. My current ‘main’ (and possibly soon, only) digi is a Panasonic S1r. It seems to be very robust and useable, but time will tell. For now I’ve got various old manual focus lenses (Zeiss ZF plus some Pentax and Canon and my rangefinder lenses too I suppose) and a Sigma 105 macro that is primarily for film scanning.

I’ve also got a Pentax K1 that seems well made, but is really an af only camera in my experience.

K1 and S1R are good choice for weather sealed cameras. -10 +40 C rated.

L mount is very appealing now. 24-70 2.8 Sigma lens, weather sealed for under 800 USD new.

 

[Richard G]

M9-P for ten years. Two new sensors (free). Tightening of the screw which allows the baseplate key to stay put. Remapping the sensor for bad pixel once. Monochrom, over 8 years. One new sensor (free). Remapping sensor for bad pixel, once. Both used daily at times, no case, sometimes in bag. Never dropped.

 

[sojournerphoto]

K1 and S1R are good choice for weather sealed cameras. -10 +40 C rated.

L mount is very appealing now. 24-70 2.8 Sigma lens, weather sealed for under 800 USD new.

yes, they are a good complement to the film rangefinders. L mount works really well for both manual and autofocus. The K1 is excellent, but it’s future with me is uncertain. I’m not sure it adds much to the S1r and I’ve struggled with a couple of fast af 50s and focus shift- I can adjust for 1.4 and have back focus at every other aperture or adjust at 2.8 and have front focus at 1.4 and 2… but as a camera with other lenses it’s lovely.

 

[vbsoto]

I've not checked the numbers but until recently my most used was my Olympus e-600. It has since suffered a IBIS failure leaving the sensor out of alignment, so I sold if off for parts or repair. Its been a workhorse and I miss its handling but have since moved on to a Lumix gx-7 which is proving to be a great shooter.

 

[Pál_K]

M9-P for ten years. ... Monochrom, over 8 years. … Both used daily at times ...

You definitely got good value for your money. This is how cameras were intended to be used.

Just curious- what were your choices of lenses? Did you mostly use just one lens for each body?

 

[dreamsandart]

Bought the Leica M9 when it was first introduced and never had any problems with it. The monochrom followed and again never a problem. They are as ‘robust’ as any M-series camera I’ve owned. Both of these were sent to Leica and had the upgraded sensor installed and fully serviced for free with an addition 1-year guarantee. NOT the highest tech/advanced cameras even when they were new, but just dependable Leica RF cameras that did what they did in kind of an ‘old school’ way. The older digital M-series really don’t fit the thread title ‘advanced’ maybe unless your coming from a film Leica like I was ;-), but…

Got a used Leica SL almost a couple years ago and even then it was a 5-year old camera, but what a difference in function and use. It’s what I would label a ‘modern’ camera, and even though the tech is not the latest and greatest it was ahead of its time then so holds its own even today. It’s built like a TANK, easy in the hands, and the design is also a modern classic. I’ve been very happy not worrying about taking it out in any weather or conditions, and it works very intuitively [once mapped and familiar with the functions]. At the price I bought it at I feel It is the best bargain of any digital Leica Camera these days. It’s the camera I have with me everyday and really fun with lenses from the 1930s/50s/60s I use with it.

 

[David Hughes]

David,

Nearly 100% of my experience using AA NiMH batteries comes from using the Pentax DSLRs in the 2004-2009 time period. I had the best NiMH batteries I could find... at the end, the Sanyo Eneloop, now with other brands carrying them... and the best charger I could find ... La Crosse Technology BC-900... Still have both of them, the charger is still great, the Eneloops are still working 13 years on. I use them in a host of other devices. The Eneloops finally solved the storage problem and maintenance problems of NiMH batteries, in my opinion. In that time, Li-Ion technology batteries, even in AA format, were much more expensive and the benefits of using them questionable. (Actually, the best performance I ever got out of those cameras was with the one-use AA Li cells ... One set of them once lasted me through a four week, 2600 exposure trip.)

However, the first Pentax which had a dedicated, custom form-factor Li-Ion battery (can't remember the name) outperformed on battery life all four of the previous Pentax cameras. The standard BLM-1 in the original Olympus E-1 outlasted the Eneloops in an adapter by a factor of three on a charge. That experience colors my view of this stuff.

That said, I don't disagree with the notion that battery availability will be the death of many an old digital camera. As will parts and service availability, which applies equally to film and digital cameras, and the battery issue can as well affect film cameras. It's why I prefer old mechanical film cameras with no meters, and generally when I move on from a particular digital camera, I don't go back. I loved my old L1, would never buy another now; same for the 2003 E-1 which is delightfully still working as new and the BLM-5s still available easily. Battery life will sound the death knell of my very entertaining and useful Light L16 (non-replaceable battery) just like the availability of a current OS upgrade and apps compatible with modern systems and needs will eventually murder my mid-2012 Mac mini.

As much as these things are lovely, I can't see going back to them over the equally wonderful and better performing current offerings for which batteries, parts, and service are easily available. They are devices, locked into their time, just like my 1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupe is, and it takes a lot of effort and energy to keep them going and usable. You only do that kind of thing because you like them ... the very meaning of amateur involvement in a hobby. Not because it makes any sense.

I can't see much point to complaining about the effort and trials it takes with old cameras, or with old cars, or with old computers, since I know in all ways I can buy a modern, up to date replacement that will outperform them in every particular. And that I even like just as much. I just enjoy the old junk, and find the tribulations of ownership/use part of the charm of messing about with them. 🙂

G

Hi,

In a nutshell I'll go along with what you say, especially about the E-1 and its batteries. But with the exception that I tried the Sanyo AA's and wasn't impressed but I wonder if the wicked shopkeeper was the reason for that as I hear good things about them. Anyway, I've other AA's and am happy with them.

In mitigation I'll add that it was moving from a camera with 4 AA's (or two lithium Cr-V3's) to the next model/replacement that came out with those little squarish lithium batteries that started me thinking years ago because from force of habit I looked at the battery's spec. and did the sums in my head and thought about the price of a spare battery.

One of the reasons I am happy with my old cameras is that I've no great wish to print larger than an almost 12 x 8 (on A4 paper) and the old ones do it nicely. So I'm a typical amateur doing it that way for the pleasure of it. And of course, the money I save and the complications I avoid make life easier and the money saved goes on ink, glossy paper and travel.

Part of the pleasure of the older ones it that I seldom find myself on my knees in the mud in a wood wondering why a blue icon of a fish in water has appeared on the LCD screen. There's a lot to be said for simplicity and long experience.

Regards, David