furcafe
Veteran
Sounds normal to me.
For true handholding, i.e., standing without any support whatsoever, I can go as low as 1/4th sec. if I prepare myself, use marksmanship techniques like controlling breathing, etc., but the hit rate goes way down (say 25% v. 60-75% for 1/8th or 1/15th sec.).
As you recognize & others have pointed out, it's all pretty academic if you're shooting anything moving. In my experience, I usually need @ least 1/15th sec. to reliably freeze people in conversation, & that hardly counts as action photography.
As far as RFs v. SLRs, I think that's mostly a matter of personal taste. If you can hold 1 steady, you should be able to hold the other. I prefer RFs not because SLRs vibrate too much (even the vintage SLRs I use aren't that bad), but because I find mirror blackout to be disconcerting, especially as it gets longer w/slower exposures. For that reason, shooting SLRs in daylight is less of a problem for me (though if I haven't used 1 in a while I'll occasionally flinch on the 1st shot or 2 until I get used to the blackout!
).
As far as improving one's handholding techniques, I have little to add to what others have already posted. I clearly agree w/those suggesting marksman-type techniques as there is an obvious parallel (this goes for shooting moving subjects, too). I do find it easier to hold steady a camera that has a certain minimum mass, e.g., a Leica M v. a Barnack (screw-mount) body, so perhaps curls may be better than pushups!
For true handholding, i.e., standing without any support whatsoever, I can go as low as 1/4th sec. if I prepare myself, use marksmanship techniques like controlling breathing, etc., but the hit rate goes way down (say 25% v. 60-75% for 1/8th or 1/15th sec.).
As you recognize & others have pointed out, it's all pretty academic if you're shooting anything moving. In my experience, I usually need @ least 1/15th sec. to reliably freeze people in conversation, & that hardly counts as action photography.
As far as RFs v. SLRs, I think that's mostly a matter of personal taste. If you can hold 1 steady, you should be able to hold the other. I prefer RFs not because SLRs vibrate too much (even the vintage SLRs I use aren't that bad), but because I find mirror blackout to be disconcerting, especially as it gets longer w/slower exposures. For that reason, shooting SLRs in daylight is less of a problem for me (though if I haven't used 1 in a while I'll occasionally flinch on the 1st shot or 2 until I get used to the blackout!
).As far as improving one's handholding techniques, I have little to add to what others have already posted. I clearly agree w/those suggesting marksman-type techniques as there is an obvious parallel (this goes for shooting moving subjects, too). I do find it easier to hold steady a camera that has a certain minimum mass, e.g., a Leica M v. a Barnack (screw-mount) body, so perhaps curls may be better than pushups!
paulfish4570
Veteran
"If you're well fed"
Excellent point.
Excellent point.
john_van_v
Well-known
SLR or RF?
With my Kodak c875, I am good to 1/8th if I have a few tries. Needless to say there is no mirror slap.
My Yashica Lynx 14 has very little vibration, so I imagine it would do about the same, though I have yet to use it enough to remember the speeds.
I really think that SLRs are limited to a 30th. My Yashica Electro X feels like low vibration, and my Nikon FM feels like high vibration.
But because I use an f1.2 Nikkor lens, the FM usually goes out at night.
What people aren't mentioning here is motion by people at night. That requires good following rather than standing still.
With my Kodak c875, I am good to 1/8th if I have a few tries. Needless to say there is no mirror slap.
My Yashica Lynx 14 has very little vibration, so I imagine it would do about the same, though I have yet to use it enough to remember the speeds.
I really think that SLRs are limited to a 30th. My Yashica Electro X feels like low vibration, and my Nikon FM feels like high vibration.
But because I use an f1.2 Nikkor lens, the FM usually goes out at night.
What people aren't mentioning here is motion by people at night. That requires good following rather than standing still.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
I'm confident shooting at 1/30, I've done it so many times before I know exactly what to do to have it decently sharp. Just made one at 1/12 a couple of days ago, crossing my fingers for that one
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
1/60th is as slow as I have been able to go with a 50mm lens. As mentioned before, any slower and you'll need a couple shots in the hopes that one of them will come out sharp.
Ranchu
Veteran
I don't like to go below 1/30th with a RF, generally. 1/60th with an SLR to avoid the mirror vibration, this is without stabilization. The most limiting factor for me is the disappearance of resistance in the shutter button as the shutter is released. Half the time the camera will move, half not. I haven't found a soft release to make much difference for me, but they are more comfortable.
I like coffee too.
I like coffee too.
Last edited:
bgb
Well-known
It depends
It depends
Must be old age but i would never consider hand holding at slow speeds unless there was no other alternative (like a tree of lamp post) and the shot was worth the risk. Even a mini tripod is worth using when the speeds drop
Maybe 125 or 60 with the slr and 60 or 30 with the rangefinder.
Would also depend on your physical condition if i had just climbed a hill to get a shot there is no way i would try to hold a camera at any speed .. too busy gasping for breath
It depends
Must be old age but i would never consider hand holding at slow speeds unless there was no other alternative (like a tree of lamp post) and the shot was worth the risk. Even a mini tripod is worth using when the speeds drop
Maybe 125 or 60 with the slr and 60 or 30 with the rangefinder.
Would also depend on your physical condition if i had just climbed a hill to get a shot there is no way i would try to hold a camera at any speed .. too busy gasping for breath
pvdhaar
Peter
I find that when I'm standing comfortably, I can regularly get good shots at 1/8th. My DSLR is even somewhat better than my RF around this shutter speed due to the slow speed gear train kicking in on the latter.
The big problem is that comfortably standing rarely makes for good pictures. The perspective is almost always better from somewhat lower when I bend my knees. And then, because of the sometimes awkward position, it's very difficult to keep the camera absolutely still and I need at least 1/125.
The big problem is that comfortably standing rarely makes for good pictures. The perspective is almost always better from somewhat lower when I bend my knees. And then, because of the sometimes awkward position, it's very difficult to keep the camera absolutely still and I need at least 1/125.
kitaanat
kitaanat
1/8 - 1/15 are safe for me. I have a project about the movement and that made me shoot at as lower speed as possible. At 1/8 can be hand held or some time with support such as wall, tree or hand rail.
-doomed-
film is exciting
Caffeine, the fuel and enemy of many photogs. I personally down plenty of caffeinated substances like water and can usually manage around 1/8th with support or 1/15th unsupported, but as you mentioned 1/30th seems to be the sharpest of the three I mentioned. Leaf shutter fixed lense RF's have been my best slow speed handhelds.
palec
Well-known
1/250 or better 1/500, sometimes I take the risk with 1/60. I don't feel comfortable with 1/30 or 1/15 (last resort), slower speeds only with camera on table or something flat preferably with self-timer.
I don't feel comfortable with 1/1000 either as it's not 1/1000 with mechanical M and during this winter the shutter curtain brake caused me a lot of trouble with M6 at this speed.
I don't feel comfortable with 1/1000 either as it's not 1/1000 with mechanical M and during this winter the shutter curtain brake caused me a lot of trouble with M6 at this speed.
kshapero
South Florida Man
On a Leica M with a mini soft release, 1/5 is a safe bet.
funkpilz
Well-known
1/60, I'm an amateur with shakey hands. I'm a bit too scared to try anything below that.
elmer3.5
Well-known
Speeds
Speeds
Hi,
Sometimes 1/4 only on a III-F, for the others 1/8 is rather sure.
To get slower than 1/15 i use other techniques as breathing and body rythm, etc.
The best is the III type leica, then m6, with ZI and M8 i cannot go that slow.
When i had only the elmar 50/3.5 i learned a lot getting pics very slowly.
Bye.
Speeds
Hi,
Sometimes 1/4 only on a III-F, for the others 1/8 is rather sure.
To get slower than 1/15 i use other techniques as breathing and body rythm, etc.
The best is the III type leica, then m6, with ZI and M8 i cannot go that slow.
When i had only the elmar 50/3.5 i learned a lot getting pics very slowly.
Bye.
Last edited:
jaredangle
Photojournalist
Generally at 1/30 I consider myself to have a good success rate with an SLR, 1/15 and 1/8 are fine too but I will find something to brace myself on, and if I can't, I will sit down cross-legged and brace my elbows against my knees, or lay down if it still gives me the proper perspective.
For a leaf shuttered rangefinder like the Mamiya 7, I've been comfortable with 1/8 and 1/4.
For a leaf shuttered rangefinder like the Mamiya 7, I've been comfortable with 1/8 and 1/4.
Bill Harrison
Member
A good reference is in Barry Thorntons "Edge of Darkness" pg 65. No one is a human tripod. I find repeatability important, that means 1/250th, 50mm lens & 11x14 print. For every step down in focal length or pic size from 11x14, a step slower in speed is OK. So an 8x10 with a 28 would be 1/30th. Likewise in the other direction. If I'm looking for a 16x20 with a 90mm, it's 1/1000 sec..... These are minimums for me with Leica, extra care with Nikon F. If the "God of Art" is with me, shooting at any speed is OK but not with an expectation of sharp.