jasperamsterdam
Established
Hi all,
I'll promise this is my last question about filmchoice.. Owning a 5d but having promised to leave it at home for my coming weeklong trip to NYC still makes me nervous. Choosing one iso for 36 exposures, choosing color OR b/w is kinda scary for me..
But i'm going for it! My recently aquired M6 is at the CLA, and will be back before i leave (14 june)
What set of films should i buy?
I like to take pictures (dream on...
) in the style of Winogrand, Eggleston and Walker Evans. And will be shooting from early morning to late at night. Color and B/W. Will scan them. Know photoshop. Have 25/4 skopar, 40 summi-c , 85 2.0 jupiter and think about adding a 50 1.5 nokton to my shopping list.
O yeah, i allready have one film, 9 rolls of natura 1600, from japan to do the Wong Kar-wai Camera/Christopher Doyle thing late at night.
Hope you can help me out and make my mind rest a bit..
Thanks! Jasper
http://flickr.com/photos/jasperamsterdam/
http://www.method.nl/
I'll promise this is my last question about filmchoice.. Owning a 5d but having promised to leave it at home for my coming weeklong trip to NYC still makes me nervous. Choosing one iso for 36 exposures, choosing color OR b/w is kinda scary for me..
But i'm going for it! My recently aquired M6 is at the CLA, and will be back before i leave (14 june)
What set of films should i buy?
I like to take pictures (dream on...
) in the style of Winogrand, Eggleston and Walker Evans. And will be shooting from early morning to late at night. Color and B/W. Will scan them. Know photoshop. Have 25/4 skopar, 40 summi-c , 85 2.0 jupiter and think about adding a 50 1.5 nokton to my shopping list.O yeah, i allready have one film, 9 rolls of natura 1600, from japan to do the Wong Kar-wai Camera/Christopher Doyle thing late at night.
Hope you can help me out and make my mind rest a bit..
Thanks! Jasper
http://flickr.com/photos/jasperamsterdam/
http://www.method.nl/
Charly
-
Tri X, Plus X and Delta 3200 is the diet I feed my cameras. I also use XP2 when I live somewhere with crummy water, agro housemates or anything else that prevents me from devving my own.
For colour, I was disappointed with Portra 400 NC. Next time I buy, will opt for VC - but that won't be til 2012 I suspect! i've come to realise that colour rarely adds to the image and therefore I tend to omit it. When it adds to the photo, for me at least, it seems to be the subject - possibly why I wasn't a fan of NC even after post processing.
For colour, I was disappointed with Portra 400 NC. Next time I buy, will opt for VC - but that won't be til 2012 I suspect! i've come to realise that colour rarely adds to the image and therefore I tend to omit it. When it adds to the photo, for me at least, it seems to be the subject - possibly why I wasn't a fan of NC even after post processing.
like2fiddle
Curious
Tri-x - shoot at 250 to 400 day, 800 to 1600 at night. It's what I do in NYC.
maddoc
... likes film again.
What set of films should i buy?
I like to take pictures (dream on...
Easy, your M6, JUST the Summicron-C and ~ 20 rolls of Tri-X (all to be exposed at 400 ISO). You won't need more, experimenting with different FL and films is nice at home but not when traveling in unfamiliar, busy and crowded places ...
ibcrewin
Ah looky looky
Dude, this is New York city. Anything you take will be awesome.
If you don't like it go to Union Square and Stop by Adorama. Oh your at Herald Square? no problem swing by B&H a few aves over. Madison park is a stones throw from Calmulet.
This time of year, i'd go with E6 for color. Probably some velvia, and some neopan 1600 for the night.
Good luck!
If you don't like it go to Union Square and Stop by Adorama. Oh your at Herald Square? no problem swing by B&H a few aves over. Madison park is a stones throw from Calmulet.
This time of year, i'd go with E6 for color. Probably some velvia, and some neopan 1600 for the night.
Good luck!
David Goldfarb
Well-known
Make it easy on yourself. Shoot one film. I like Tri-X. Delta 400 is also nice. All the B&W films available are very capable (even from the second and third tier manufacturers), and it's largely a matter of taste which you choose.
Bring a few rolls with you to get started, and pick up as much as you need at B&H or one of the other local shops.
Bring a few rolls with you to get started, and pick up as much as you need at B&H or one of the other local shops.
Berliner
Well-known
You should plan on buying your film in NYC. Anything you could think of should be available--In any case I wouldn't bring anything over 800 iso if you are flying...
jasperamsterdam
Established
My mind has been made up (?)
My mind has been made up (?)
I'll buy most film in NYC.
I'll use tri-x mostly (buy alot of rolls!), plan to do my first-time-ever own developing in 1:1 xtol and shoot at 200 & 400 asa. When i use it at 1250, I'll use diafine.
I'll take my recently arrived from japan 1600 natura film to use whenever i feel like it, at night Downtown. Try to keep it away from x-rays.
I'll buy some kodachrome 64 or special occasions like the mermaid parade or other americana subject. Just because its still available, and want to have one go at it while it's still here.
Thats it.
Sounds like a plan?
Scanning them later will be a different issue..
My mind has been made up (?)
I'll buy most film in NYC.
I'll use tri-x mostly (buy alot of rolls!), plan to do my first-time-ever own developing in 1:1 xtol and shoot at 200 & 400 asa. When i use it at 1250, I'll use diafine.
I'll take my recently arrived from japan 1600 natura film to use whenever i feel like it, at night Downtown. Try to keep it away from x-rays.
I'll buy some kodachrome 64 or special occasions like the mermaid parade or other americana subject. Just because its still available, and want to have one go at it while it's still here.
Thats it.
Sounds like a plan?
Scanning them later will be a different issue..
oscroft
Veteran
Good thinking. I'm in Thailand now and I brought 30 rolls of Kodachrome for the same reason - because I want to use it while I still can.
photophorous
Registered User
Is there any way you can mail the Natura to your hotel or a friend in NYC so you don't have to fly with it? Then you could get it processed in NYC before you leave with no x-ray worries. Tri-X will do fine in your carry-on.
If you plan to shoot the Tri-X at different film speeds, make sure you have a good method of keeping up with which roll was shot at what speed.
I'm always a big proponent of developing your own, but you may not want your first ever roll to be something important from a trip. Maybe shoot a few rolls before or after and develop that before you try the important stuff. Or to be extra safe, shoot some XP2 and save the developing lessons for another time.
Just my two cents. Have a good trip.
Paul
David Goldfarb
Well-known
If you want to have your film processed in New York, these folks have a Refrema dip-and-dunk filled with what must be over 100 gallons of Xtol--
http://www.sixtyeightdegrees.com/
http://www.sixtyeightdegrees.com/
robertdfeinman
Robert Feinman
shopping
shopping
Just be aware that Adorama and B&H both close early on Friday (around 2PM) and are closed on Saturday. They have shortened hours on Sunday.
Personally I suggest 400 speed color negative film for everything these days. You can scan it and make b&w prints or color as the subject demands. You can get it developed anyplace and get proof prints as well to make sure things are working OK.
I know the b&W film shooters think this is heresy, but I think they are just living in the past. With digital editing you can bend the response curve anyway you want to emulate the response of different developing times and film stock. I don't think grain is an issue either at reasonable magnifications.
Finally you can use a single color channel or a mixture of them to simulate the use of a color filter when going to b&w. One film, easy processing and proofing and then you can concentrate on taking pictures.
shopping
Just be aware that Adorama and B&H both close early on Friday (around 2PM) and are closed on Saturday. They have shortened hours on Sunday.
Personally I suggest 400 speed color negative film for everything these days. You can scan it and make b&w prints or color as the subject demands. You can get it developed anyplace and get proof prints as well to make sure things are working OK.
I know the b&W film shooters think this is heresy, but I think they are just living in the past. With digital editing you can bend the response curve anyway you want to emulate the response of different developing times and film stock. I don't think grain is an issue either at reasonable magnifications.
Finally you can use a single color channel or a mixture of them to simulate the use of a color filter when going to b&w. One film, easy processing and proofing and then you can concentrate on taking pictures.
jasperamsterdam
Established
hmm, there is the c41-only argument again.. just when i got it out of my head (please forgive my doubting, like i said, i have a perfect 5d just sitting here whispering "just take me, you've been happy with me for years")
Without deliberatly starting a whole c41-Photoshop vs B/W film debate, there IS a advantage in "look" / "tonality" / " dynamic range" when i use trix vs NPS/400NC, Right?
Without deliberatly starting a whole c41-Photoshop vs B/W film debate, there IS a advantage in "look" / "tonality" / " dynamic range" when i use trix vs NPS/400NC, Right?
jasperamsterdam
Established
btw, sixtyeightdegrees is on my list!
robertdfeinman
Robert Feinman
choice
choice
Well only you know how you visualize things.
To bolster my case you can read my tip on the subject:
Using Color Film to Make Black and White Prints
Personally I think many people think that if the process is more difficult then the results must be better. I understand bamboozling the fine art market with explanations of how a print was made with some antiquated process or other, but I've always felt that the thing on the wall has to stand on its own. I don't care if it was shot was a 16x20 camera hauled by mules or a PS.
I have a statement on this as well:
Conceptual Photography - An Artistic Manifesto
As I said originally I think keeping shooting decisions simple so that one can focus on the scene before you is the most important thing.
choice
Well only you know how you visualize things.
To bolster my case you can read my tip on the subject:
Using Color Film to Make Black and White Prints
Personally I think many people think that if the process is more difficult then the results must be better. I understand bamboozling the fine art market with explanations of how a print was made with some antiquated process or other, but I've always felt that the thing on the wall has to stand on its own. I don't care if it was shot was a 16x20 camera hauled by mules or a PS.
I have a statement on this as well:
Conceptual Photography - An Artistic Manifesto
As I said originally I think keeping shooting decisions simple so that one can focus on the scene before you is the most important thing.
40oz
...
FWIW, Pan F looks nothing like you get from photoshop from C-41 film. I don't know why you'd fake it when you have the opportunity and ability to do it for real. It's just not the same, and I'm sorry to anyone who doesn't understand that.
24 exposure Tri-X and Kodak Gold. Check the weather before you go. Sunny, I'd take Gold 100 and Pan F 50. Cloudy and rainy, Ultra MAX 400 and tri-X. If there is a chance the sun might set before you go to bed, see "cloudy and rainy."
Realistically, there is a camera shop every 12 feet and a drug store on every other corner in Manhattan, so I'd only take a roll or two of Tri-X and Pan F. Kodak Gold 200 and Max 400 are cake to find no matter where you go, and those are the films I like best so I'd only take the B&W. If you are only bringing one camera, don't waste it with a 36 exposure roll. Either take two, or shoot 24 ex. rolls. You don't want to be walking around for hours with a camera loaded with film you can't use because there isn't enough or too much light. And there is a certain value to being sparing of what you capture.
I'd take two cameras just for some flexibility. No reason to shoot a whole roll each day. I took almost a whole roll from the top of the Empire State building, and that was just a stupid tourist move. I'm not making maps or anything.
I guess if I was to pare it down to the barest minimum (kind of silly IMHO in New York of all places lol), I'd take a faster color film and a B&W. Kodak Max 400 and Pan F or Tri-X (that I can shoot from 200 to 800 if I need to), I suppose. I want the colors at night and the scene during the day. But that's just me. You can always buy color film.
And on that note, you could always make a point to go to a "real" photo shop for your B&W as a valid side trip. If you've never been to New York, it won't be a mundane routine.
Have fun. It's kind of hard not to
24 exposure Tri-X and Kodak Gold. Check the weather before you go. Sunny, I'd take Gold 100 and Pan F 50. Cloudy and rainy, Ultra MAX 400 and tri-X. If there is a chance the sun might set before you go to bed, see "cloudy and rainy."
Realistically, there is a camera shop every 12 feet and a drug store on every other corner in Manhattan, so I'd only take a roll or two of Tri-X and Pan F. Kodak Gold 200 and Max 400 are cake to find no matter where you go, and those are the films I like best so I'd only take the B&W. If you are only bringing one camera, don't waste it with a 36 exposure roll. Either take two, or shoot 24 ex. rolls. You don't want to be walking around for hours with a camera loaded with film you can't use because there isn't enough or too much light. And there is a certain value to being sparing of what you capture.
I'd take two cameras just for some flexibility. No reason to shoot a whole roll each day. I took almost a whole roll from the top of the Empire State building, and that was just a stupid tourist move. I'm not making maps or anything.
I guess if I was to pare it down to the barest minimum (kind of silly IMHO in New York of all places lol), I'd take a faster color film and a B&W. Kodak Max 400 and Pan F or Tri-X (that I can shoot from 200 to 800 if I need to), I suppose. I want the colors at night and the scene during the day. But that's just me. You can always buy color film.
And on that note, you could always make a point to go to a "real" photo shop for your B&W as a valid side trip. If you've never been to New York, it won't be a mundane routine.
Have fun. It's kind of hard not to
Last edited:
photophorous
Registered User
Traditional B&W film definitely has a different look than C-41 B&W or converted color film. Tonality in particular can come out a lot of different ways depending on the film, how you shoot it, and how you develop it. That's not to say C-41 isn't capable of great results too. It's just different. If you want the look of Tri-X, you should shoot Tri-X. But, if I am correct in understanding that you've never developed film before, I highly recommend you do not try to develop something important on your first try, and I would consider NYC vacation photos important. If you decide to shoot traditional B&W and develop it when you get back, you would be wise to stick the film from your trip in the fridge and let it sit until you've had time to shoot a few more rolls at home, in similar lighting, and develop those to make sure you're getting the look you want. Even better would be to shoot and develop a few rolls before your trip.
Paul
robertdfeinman
Robert Feinman
Film "look"
Film "look"
OK, I'm hijacking this thread a bit, to discuss the "look" of B&W film. There are three characteristics of film, the contrast curve (H&D curve), the spectral response of the film and the grain structure.
The H&D curve is a smooth curve which plots the change in density vs exposure. The shape of this curve depends upon the film characteristics and how it is developed. There is a simple transformation from one curve shape to another which can be done by any functional digital editor. One just creates a curve adjustment which alters a given point of the original curve to give the desired density on the final curve. So changes in contrast can be fully emulated by digital editing.
Most panchromatic films have similar spectral response and using a color negative film and mixing the color channels down to a single gray scale channel can match this as well. The exceptions are films with extended red response, and of course, special purpose films like IR. Once again the "look" of B&W film can be emulated using a digital editor.
The grain structure of many films is fairly distinctive and if you want this to appear in your final image then using a fine-grained color negative film to emulate this will be a fudge at best. This aspect of some films has a "look". However, for many people film grain is not a concern, they use fine grain film and/or don't enlarge enough to see it under normal conditions. This is also true of moderate speed color negative films. So if you want to produce "grainless" prints then either will look the same.
Like many of the truisms in photography things that everyone "knows" just aren't borne out by careful testing. However this isn't brain surgery and if you chose to follow your own pet theories and like the results then no harm done.
I should also add that if you are shooting B&W and making conventional prints then using color negative film is not the right choice. My claims of equivalence assume that both types of film will be scanned in, digitally edited and output using digital technology.
Film "look"
OK, I'm hijacking this thread a bit, to discuss the "look" of B&W film. There are three characteristics of film, the contrast curve (H&D curve), the spectral response of the film and the grain structure.
The H&D curve is a smooth curve which plots the change in density vs exposure. The shape of this curve depends upon the film characteristics and how it is developed. There is a simple transformation from one curve shape to another which can be done by any functional digital editor. One just creates a curve adjustment which alters a given point of the original curve to give the desired density on the final curve. So changes in contrast can be fully emulated by digital editing.
Most panchromatic films have similar spectral response and using a color negative film and mixing the color channels down to a single gray scale channel can match this as well. The exceptions are films with extended red response, and of course, special purpose films like IR. Once again the "look" of B&W film can be emulated using a digital editor.
The grain structure of many films is fairly distinctive and if you want this to appear in your final image then using a fine-grained color negative film to emulate this will be a fudge at best. This aspect of some films has a "look". However, for many people film grain is not a concern, they use fine grain film and/or don't enlarge enough to see it under normal conditions. This is also true of moderate speed color negative films. So if you want to produce "grainless" prints then either will look the same.
Like many of the truisms in photography things that everyone "knows" just aren't borne out by careful testing. However this isn't brain surgery and if you chose to follow your own pet theories and like the results then no harm done.
I should also add that if you are shooting B&W and making conventional prints then using color negative film is not the right choice. My claims of equivalence assume that both types of film will be scanned in, digitally edited and output using digital technology.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I suggest forget that "set of films' concept. Pick one film and use it.
If you only have two films in your "set" I can guarantee you will have the wrong one in your camera 90% of the time. Just pick one and learn to use it.
I tried multiple bodies, one with color film and one with b&w film, many decades ago. I found that the question "should I shoot this in color or b&w?" most often resulted in the answer "never mind, the photo op went away while I were thinking about it".
You mentioned you "use Tri-X mostly". Well there is your answer. Only shoot Tri-X when you are in NYC. Later when you get home you can begin to experiment with other films and see how they work. No worse feeling that realizing that you exposed all your NYC Kodachromes incorrectly.
If you only have two films in your "set" I can guarantee you will have the wrong one in your camera 90% of the time. Just pick one and learn to use it.
I tried multiple bodies, one with color film and one with b&w film, many decades ago. I found that the question "should I shoot this in color or b&w?" most often resulted in the answer "never mind, the photo op went away while I were thinking about it".
You mentioned you "use Tri-X mostly". Well there is your answer. Only shoot Tri-X when you are in NYC. Later when you get home you can begin to experiment with other films and see how they work. No worse feeling that realizing that you exposed all your NYC Kodachromes incorrectly.
KenD
Film Shooter
Once in a lifetime events - there is only one "first trip" to the apple - are not the times to try untested film, other than for something different. My suggestion: Try Tri-x (or another approx 400 iso film) before you leave Amsterdam, make sure it is working for you, and if so, stick with it. If not, try something else and see how it works.
Have a great trip.
KenD
Have a great trip.
KenD