literiter
Well-known
Is it possible to buy a new black brass rewind knob for an M4?
Youxin Ye
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x-ray
Veteran
Several post's up I mentioned the NEW a la carte MP is available with M4 hardware and in BP. The BP M7 uses the same M4 style rewind. Yes it is possible to buy a new one.
If he's not interested in calling YY then just buy another new one and be done with it. Don't get you're blood pressure up when it's in your control. It's a simple and quick solution to buy a new one or email YY then it's done, finished, over!
jenhao
Established
Thanks, Christaan for sharing your experience.
From my dealings with him, I don't think he would question your integrity. However, because of the time that has passed I would agree that practically, it is probably not possible to find your original part...
Regards,
Mark
From my dealings with him, I don't think he would question your integrity. However, because of the time that has passed I would agree that practically, it is probably not possible to find your original part...
Regards,
Mark
x-ray
Veteran
That's very possible. I don't know the serial number or where it fell in the total production but leica may have made material changes at some point in production. I'm certainly no expert on them, just a user. The only BP M4 I've used belonged to the company I worked for in the me 70's. It was brassed but can't remember the crank material. Again I'd simply buy a new one or find a used one on eBay. It's not my camera and easy for me to say buy how much of your life do you dedicate to such a minor issue. Life is bigger and not worth losing a single hour over something like this when it's so easy to remedy. Just my opinion.
I don't know the expert but there were so many variations within a model it's hard to say anyone knows all of them.
x-ray
Veteran
I think your observation is correct. I found several examples of a white metal rewind with brass flip up crank lever.
See attached for one example. The worn edges of the knob are white metal.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...rs-historica/184808-leica-m4-black-paint.html
burancap
Veteran
Post #14 of this very same thread on the M4BP rewind -they are typically overpainted regular chrome (silver) knobs. They definitely show as "silver" and then onto brass as they wear. To my knowledge, this overpainting was on the M4 and the M4 only -relative to part inventory at the time. Variations to this? A few oddball originals may be out there -or ones where original parts were replaced.
burancap
Veteran
M6BP, I have an unmarked example. From #52, I believe this overpainting was unique to the M4. They were made in relatively low numbers after the differently knobbed late M2 (and MD) paints. As they were the only paints of the time (and using the new knob) my guess is Leica just grabbed what they had. Painting was closed up after these and not resurrected again until the black M6 LHSA almost 30 years later, which had ... an unchromed brass knob.
Back to YY: I had a very pleasant discussion with him just the other night. The topic? Black paint M4's! He comes across as such a genuinely interested guy and more than willing to advise in one's best interest. I will recommend him again.
burancap
Veteran
Well, my comments are derived from my own experiences -I am sure there is much more to these stories. I am sure we would all love to hear from those that were there and I will happily be corrected for the sake of accuracy.
I have decided to start using my LHSA, so I will let you in time how it wears, but I am not expecting to see any silver! LOL! As far as availability of a canted, painted knob, they are still around as you can order a BP M7, or a BP MP with the cant via the "a la carte" service.
I have decided to start using my LHSA, so I will let you in time how it wears, but I am not expecting to see any silver! LOL! As far as availability of a canted, painted knob, they are still around as you can order a BP M7, or a BP MP with the cant via the "a la carte" service.
dreamsandart
Well-known
Just to get the story straight since this praise of Youxin thread has taken a side-step on a question about BP M4 cranks.
On the black paint M4 there are a couple versions of the rewind crank, and the self-time/frame selector levers, even the shutter speed dial. On most of the BP M4s the parts mentioned above are aluminium alloy with the shutter dial being anodised and the camera front levers painted. With the rewind crank usually the crank itself is black anodised with the flip-out lever brass and painted. There is also an [direction to turn] arrow on ALL the original cranks. Earlier BP M4s are the version with black painted brass parts. (as with ‘Leica’, this does not follow the 100% rule, but pretty close)
If the crank/lever is all ‘black chrome’ aluminium - not black paint - and without the arrow it is a later replacement part.
The brass parts are desirable for a ‘collector’s’ camera, original parts are even on later versions still desirable, after all having a BP M4 is usually part ‘heart’, part user🙂 On a well used M4 the original [early] brass-paint crank could have needed replacement (unless really bent out of shape, doubtful), but should be mentioned and a replacement part cost listed. Leica does not have any of the originals, they are rare to find. An M6 or MP BP part, or even the later ‘black chrome’ M4 part is not the same.
On one of my BP M4s more than a few years ago the delicate machined lever grip ring had popped off and I replaced the whole crank with a [same part] crank from a BP Leicaflex SL (anodised alloy crank with brass BP lever).
There are no black paint over silver chrome crank parts, It was either anodised on aluminium alloy or BP on brass. The ‘Black Chrome’ process is from the M5 time and used only on the later (alloy crank) 1974 reintroduced M4s.
BTW: Its been a long time but Youxin did a CLA on a LTM for me and I was very happy; good work, quick turn around, great price, and to have someone that is still regularly doing the work on these cameras is priceless.
On the black paint M4 there are a couple versions of the rewind crank, and the self-time/frame selector levers, even the shutter speed dial. On most of the BP M4s the parts mentioned above are aluminium alloy with the shutter dial being anodised and the camera front levers painted. With the rewind crank usually the crank itself is black anodised with the flip-out lever brass and painted. There is also an [direction to turn] arrow on ALL the original cranks. Earlier BP M4s are the version with black painted brass parts. (as with ‘Leica’, this does not follow the 100% rule, but pretty close)
If the crank/lever is all ‘black chrome’ aluminium - not black paint - and without the arrow it is a later replacement part.
The brass parts are desirable for a ‘collector’s’ camera, original parts are even on later versions still desirable, after all having a BP M4 is usually part ‘heart’, part user🙂 On a well used M4 the original [early] brass-paint crank could have needed replacement (unless really bent out of shape, doubtful), but should be mentioned and a replacement part cost listed. Leica does not have any of the originals, they are rare to find. An M6 or MP BP part, or even the later ‘black chrome’ M4 part is not the same.
On one of my BP M4s more than a few years ago the delicate machined lever grip ring had popped off and I replaced the whole crank with a [same part] crank from a BP Leicaflex SL (anodised alloy crank with brass BP lever).
There are no black paint over silver chrome crank parts, It was either anodised on aluminium alloy or BP on brass. The ‘Black Chrome’ process is from the M5 time and used only on the later (alloy crank) 1974 reintroduced M4s.
BTW: Its been a long time but Youxin did a CLA on a LTM for me and I was very happy; good work, quick turn around, great price, and to have someone that is still regularly doing the work on these cameras is priceless.
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