Zeiss Ikon at PhotoPlus Expo

Great report! When reading it, I so regretted not lining up for one of the bodies. :(
I hope I will come to senses soon and realize that I already have too many M bodies...

I do not get the chicken thing though, can you explain or show some pictures or it?

/Håkan
 
This is the most entertaining thing I've read since the last Carl Hiaasen novel. You could probably expand this to book length, huckfinn.

yossarian :D
 
aizan said:
huck, just checking, but was the camera plated or just painted?
Click to expand...

It definitely is not plated. The properties of magnesium don't allow plating - or at least make it so expensive to do as to make it cost prohibitive. The website calls it "varnished magnesium." Sounds like some sort of painting process to me, which is very feasible with magnesium.

Cheers,
Huck
 
In the list of questions given to me by RFF members was one about shutter life, which I overlooked when I wrote the post last week. I have since edited it to include the answer to that question. Short answer is: "tested for a minimum of 50,000 cycles."

Cheers,
Huck
 
Since much of our discussion of the past few days was lost in the switch back & forth between the two servers. I thought I'd post an update on my thoughts on "build quality."

So often I read that an experienced photographer can evaluate build quality just by the "feel" of the camera and by how "solid" it is. While some of that has to do with evaluating operational issues, such as how easy it is to turn the shutter speed dial while you're looking through the viewfinder, much of it has simply to do with the weight of the camera. Leica continues to make their M-cameras from brass just as they did 50 years ago when this was probably the best metal for the job. However, they don't make all their cameras of brass, so there must be good reasons to look at other alternatives.

Brass is a soft metal, so it must be used in heavier amounts to achieve the same strength as some other more modern metals. Titanium was used for the Contax G & is well known for its excellent strength-to-weight ratio although it is expensive. Carl Zeiss AG & Cosina chose magnesium for the Zeiss Ikon, so I decided to do some research on magnesium since the weight difference between the ZI & the M7 is almost entirely due to the selection of magnesium instead of brass.

Magnesium is the lightest structural metal available, but its combination of low density & good mechanical strength results in a high strength-to-weight ratio. Magnesium alloys can absorb energy elastically, making them resistant to shock. They also have good dent resistance & high damping capacity. Modern alloys have added other elements for additional strength & have eliminated pure magnesium's problem of lack of resistance to corrosion. Such alloys have also made magnesium the easiest of the structural alloys to machine, resulting in significant cost savings in the manufacturing process. Some of its common usages today are for wrist watch bodies, housings in power tools, and parts in automobiles such as valve & timing covers, brackets, clutch-transfer housings, & windshield-wiper motor housings.

I'm convinced that the prejudice toward heavier metals as an indicator of a more solid build is erroneous & in the case of brass vs magnesium adds unnecessary cost. The issue of weight depends on the usage for which the camera is intended & is not necessarily good or bad. When thinking of real world problems with build quality, they typically have nothing to do with the "heft" of the camera. Some examples that come to mind are the repeated misalignment problems with the hefty Konica Hexar RF & some CV Bessa models, problems with dust in the viewfinder of the M7 due to faulty seals, the notorious disappearing focus patch on the M6 due to uncontrolled flare, and the problems of loose front elements on some recent Leica lenses due to the use of glue instead of screws to secure these elements. I hope that Zeiss has addressed these issues with their quality control program & with tests for vibration & shock in their "torture chamber" (environmental testing lab). I see no way of evaluating these issues by inspecting a camera - unless parts are falling off - so I will look for reports from users when they get to handle them & put them through their paces in the next few weeks.

Cheers,
Huck
 
Mg also burns at a high temperature with a brilliant light. I've read some amusing stories from the farm that tickle my pyrotechnic impulses. Individuals buy old VW wrecks, haul the engine block into a back field, and light it off. From the descriptions, I'm quite sure the effect can be seen from space! Makes me nervous to see Mg gaining use in these structural applications - especially where sparks and short-circuits may arise.
 
Rico, those are pretty old VW wrecks! They changed from Mg to Al in the 1960s.

On the other hand, if electric sparcs from a flashplug hot enough to cause a fuel air mixture to explode didn't ignite the VW engines, I think I'm save in the environment where I use a camera :)
 
Magnesium is generally used in applications up to 200 degrees, at which point alloys are still dimensionslly stable, & in some applications up to 350 degrees. For specialized applications, alloys are created to combine Mg with other elements for greater strength. Given that Zeiss tests for performance in temperature extremes, I would think they have this covered. See "Making of . . .", Chapter 4 at www.zeissikon.com.

Advances in Mg alloys in recent years have resulted in a greater number of applications. Typical applications of Mg gravity include components for wheels for sports & race cars. The melting point for Mg is 1105 degrees. I think we're safe. ;)

Cheers,
Huck
 
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The use of the "torture chamber" inspires quite a bit of confidence in me, I must say.

I had a chance to see such a torture chamber in action a few years ago, when Hewlett Packard donated a tract of land as well as a large amount of equipment to my college. One such torture chamber made its way into our ceramics department. When I heard some of the stories about how things are tested in those chambers, I thought to myself that it must be nearly impossible to develop a product to survive such tests....but at the facility that HP donated, they made heart valves and such things... Nowthe torture chamber is used for far less glamorous purposes, namely slowly drying out clay.

Don't underestimate the engineering that will have gone into a camera that can withstand those tests.

(of course one hopes that the ZI eventually actually passed the tests...)
 
I'm reposting the link to the table that compares the Zeiss Ikon, Bessa R2A/R3A and the Leica M7.

The metering and flash systems of the Leica appear to be more sophisticated than the Zeiss Ikon and Bessas. There might be some changes to this table when the camera finally arrives. As it is, these are specs taken from the respective Web sites.

The one change is the weight of the Zeiss Ikon. Originally quoted at 500 grams, Huck says the Hasselblad rep reported that it's now 460 grams.

Edit: corrected "Bessar" to read "Bessa"
 
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It's ever so slightly smaller than the Leica Ms? How strange, all pictures I've seen make the camera actually look bigger (significantly bigger, like several mms) *shrug*
 
My dad, who was a machinist, would sometimes bring home metal shavings. He would show us how quickly some would burn. So he would put them in an ashtray and light them. I can't recall if it was magnesium -- don't think it was. I'll have to ask my brother. But man, that stuff burned white hot and in just a few seconds!
 
I am reminded how once when I was much younger a friend and I mixed up a small batch of Thermite (powdered aluminum and powdered iron oxide (rust :) ) and ignited it with a strip of magnesium.

That was one short, hot & blindingly brilliant fire.

I really don't know how some of us survive to (physical at least) adulthood... :eek: :bang:

William
 
We did those experiments too :)

We had a herbicide then which burned very easyly when mixed with sugar. Some copper tubing filled with this stuff made a realy impressive firefountain. With both ends tightly closed, it made a nice bomb.
(Now the NSA is realy after me) And with some sulphur and an oxydizer I won't name here we made explosives strong enough to blast a medium tree.
Steelwool with lighterfluid is nice too :)

Back to magnesium alloys for camera housings, I've yet to hear from a burning Canon 10d or 20d.

It is much harder to ignite a solid block of any material than a swarf (looked that up, it means a chip in metalurgy if my dictionary is right) or chip. To light a bonfire you first light smaller chips and go to bigger pieces later.
 
An incredible report Huck, thanks for sharing !

If the ZI people do everything like they informed you on your meeting, the ZI is going to be a bomb ! (to keep with the current theme :) )
 
My brother and I used to open packs of firecracker and create a trail of gunpowder around the basement. Just like in the movies. Then we'd light it and whoosh!

We also did this thing, where we put a firecracker between two blocks of wood ... uh, never mind. It was a pretty dangerous stunt. I'd hate to think someone might actually try it. Amazing that we all have our fingers and toes intact.
 
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