Zeiss Ikon Contessaamat STE

[johnnyrod]

Think I might have to buy a service manual, I can't find anything for free on t'internet. I can fix most things but not tried cameras before. Any tips on cleaning? I work in a lab so I can get hold of pretty much anything. Looking into the lens, there are purple sheens ehre and there, so I presume it's coated, andi need to be careful what I try to clean? I took some pics of the various screws I can see:
One either side of front objective lens:
http://www.johnnyrod.co.uk/ikon/1.jpg
Three around lens in camera, four in outermost areas (two visible on left, other two under the spiked film idler roller), one in the bottom centre
http://www.johnnyrod.co.uk/ikon/2.jpg
Top off
http://www.johnnyrod.co.uk/ikon/3.jpg
and lid off rangefinder sliding thing
http://www.johnnyrod.co.uk/ikon/4.jpg
Finally three tiny screws around the front lens part of the barrel
http://www.johnnyrod.co.uk/ikon/5.jpg
I daren't take any more off without a manual.

 

[johnnyrod]

Little update, I found a bit of plastic and was trying to project a film-plane image to see if it was sharp, when I got a proper look at the lens itself. There's a fair bit of muck in there, maybe fungus blooms too. I'm prepared to have a go at it myself with a service manual. Any tips on where to get one as a download? I only seem to be able to find bound ones from the US. Am happy to pay but little sense in posting stuff these days. Re. cleaning, how do I go about clenaing the coated bits (if any) or do I just resign myself to the lesser of two evils?

 

[Ranchu]

This sounds kind of hairy to me, but I don't know the camera. You want to be sure you have fungus or haze before you try to open it up, imo. Even then it may be wiser to send it to someone with more experience, since it's a tessar with a rangefinder, and you have a working meter. Tally Isham would probably send it out.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/flashlight-test.htm

 

[Ranchu]

I have no experience with him, but this guy occurred to me as possibly a good option. He also has a bunch of how to repair sections which may be helpful. Retinas of course, but you might find similarities...

http://retinarescue.com/kodakretinarepairservice.html

 

[johnnyrod]

Thanks for the flashlight test link. Looks like I have a job on my hands; you can see dirt of whatever sort on a number of planes, and lots of it, so no surprise about the picture quality. I showed the camera to a friend of mine who is a pro photographer and he also said the apeture blades are sticking (it closes fine but is very slow to open) and the slower shutter speeds (below 1/15) are sticking. I am going to have a go at this so will, with no small irony, document it using my Olympus C60Z digi snapper. Partly in case I make a mess of it. It'll have to wait though.

In another random stroke of irony I bought another camera, a Contessa LKE, which is almost the same but the meter is uncoupled. At first sight it's pretty grubby but on closer inspection, the dirt appears to only be on the front and back of the lens (outer elements) and all the mechanical bits seem to be in good order. I really bought it because it was cheap and came with a Zeiss leather case - this alone is something people are selling for twice what I paid. It could turn out to be the better camera though!

 

[farlymac]

By johnnyrod

"It could turn out to be the better camera though!"

That's been the case many times before.

I tore down a Contaflex II once, thinking all it needed was a good escapement cleaning. By the time I finished fixing everything, there weren't many screws I had not taken out of the camera at least once.

Old German cameras are so much fun to work on, because the manufacturers loathed paying to copy someone else's design, and would instead come up with their own way of doing the same thing. Zeiss in particular was known for over-engineering everything. But once you get a Zeiss camera fully cleaned and adjusted, it should be good for another decade or two.

PF

 

[titrisol]

Congrats the STE with the 40mm Tessar are awesome!

I think I'm not understanding your question correctly... your main subject is tack sharp, but the objects in front or behind are not?
That is very normal IMHO, and actually having the objects not sharp is preferred and will happen more whn you shoot wide open

 

[johnnyrod]

Unfortunately nothing was sharp on the pics from the Contesamat. The rangefinder focused it at the right distance (though this did not match the numerical scale), but everything was a bit diffuse. Having tried the flashlight test, the lens is truly filthy on just about all its surfaces, and this looks like the problem.

I gave the front and back of the Contessa's lens a gentle clean and have stuck a film in it out of impatience. The meter also seems to read about right, which is good for me. All the lens rings are much smoother (it is also front lens focus I think), though the shutter speed one feels like you're really pushing against a spring when you are going to slower shutter speeds. Anyway autumn is coming so hopefully I will be tripping over things to point it at.

 

[johnnyrod]

Well it's been a long time but if you saw the repairs thread you'll know I overhauled this camera (actually an SBE unlike the title - same lens though), which was quite a job. I finally got my test roll finished and pictures back, here are a couple:
Kelpie - never mind the water, I see humans to eat! by John Rodriguez, on Flickr
Ana bike by John Rodriguez, on Flickr
I used the same film (Agfa Vista Plus 200 ISO from Poundland) and it has the same lens as my Contessa LKE (50mm front-cell focus Tessar) but this time I got the processing and printing done at Asda (Walmart UK) instead of Peak Imaging. They're not nearly as clear and quite bright to the point of starting to look washed-out, so I doubt I'll be going back there. Also my scanner isn't great. All that aside, the pics look good in the flesh, nice and sharp. It seems to be focusing a little short - actually at 1.45m or so when the rangefinder (and scale FWIW) is set at 1.5m, but I can adjust that out and in the real world it's going to get lost in the DoF anyway. I think this is somehow a consequence of using a split prism screen to collimate the lens, the film seems to capture the image just a little further back then the screen. Anyway the story is finally at an end!

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Well it's been a long time but if you saw the repairs thread you'll know I overhauled this camera (actually an SBE unlike the title - same lens though), which was quite a job. I finally got my test roll finished and pictures back, here are a couple:
Kelpie - never mind the water, I see humans to eat! by John Rodriguez, on Flickr
Ana bike by John Rodriguez, on Flickr
I used the same film (Agfa Vista Plus 200 ISO from Poundland) and it has the same lens as my Contessa LKE (50mm front-cell focus Tessar) but this time I got the processing and printing done at Asda (Walmart UK) instead of Peak Imaging. They're not nearly as clear and quite bright to the point of starting to look washed-out, so I doubt I'll be going back there. Also my scanner isn't great. All that aside, the pics look good in the flesh, nice and sharp. It seems to be focusing a little short - actually at 1.45m or so when the rangefinder (and scale FWIW) is set at 1.5m, but I can adjust that out and in the real world it's going to get lost in the DoF anyway. I think this is somehow a consequence of using a split prism screen to collimate the lens, the film seems to capture the image just a little further back then the screen. Anyway the story is finally at an end!

I prefer to use a ground glass screen when I am checking focus if possible rather than a split wedge. It's also better to use a longer lens than that fitted to the camera being tested. Ideally at least twice the focal length of the one attached to it. I've used various SLRs as substitute collimators to set focus. These days I usually employ my 500C/M and its 150mm or 250mm Sonnar for the task because (A) it's in excellent adjustment, (this is essential if you're going to have any accuracy in your calibration process) and (B) the large, bright viewfinder makes the task of assessing focus that much easier. Using a longish lens will magnify the target film at the test cameras film gate and make it easier to detect minor inaccuracies, and, hence, lead to more accurate adjustments.
Cheers
Brett

 

[johnnyrod]

I actually used the split prism screen because I popped it out of an SLR because it was rigid and I was intending to use the ground part of it. When I saw the split image I thought, great, no guessing about what is sharp enough now! It could be I've just not been accurate enough, although it seemed quite easy at the time. Anyway I'm a bit unclear how I'd use your method as the lens is a fixed 50mm? All I did was tape the screen at the film plane, open the shutter at B, and set the lens, rangefinder spot and focus scale all at 1.5m as measured from the target to the film plane mark on the camera top. I used a loupe to see the projected image a bit more easily.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I actually used the split prism screen because I popped it out of an SLR because it was rigid and I was intending to use the ground part of it. When I saw the split image I thought, great, no guessing about what is sharp enough now! It could be I've just not been accurate enough, although it seemed quite easy at the time. Anyway I'm a bit unclear how I'd use your method as the lens is a fixed 50mm? All I did was tape the screen at the film plane, open the shutter at B, and set the lens, rangefinder spot and focus scale all at 1.5m as measured from the target to the film plane mark on the camera top. I used a loupe to see the projected image a bit more easily.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Using a ground glass and loupe it's possible to set the focus fairly well in many cases. But if you want/need more accuracy, it is possible to use an SLR in good condition as an auto-collimator to closely examine a cameras focus accuracy at the film plane. You can read more about this (including some photos of how it's done) in the following post, and Rick Oleson also has some good information about the procedure on his website. The Ed Romney camera repair book also discusses this (see the Members subforum).
Cheers,
Brett

 

[johnnyrod]

Thanks for this, I've read something similar before. In some ways I couldn't be bothered to set the whole thing up, in others I set the focus at 1.5m as when wide open there is a very shallow DoF due to the short focal distance so accuracy is more important than at long distance/infinity. That was my logic anyway! I'll have to revisit it and see how it looks, though really it's niggling me as a perfectionist moreso than it's affected any of the pictures.