zeiss ikon m survey

[f8&go]

I've got no education in statistics, hell, I'm entirely ignorant
of higher math.

Can anyone shine a light for me on the likely methodological
and mathematical validity of this poll, please? Right now
it shows 24% problems.

No offense intended to the Original Poster, by the way.
I simply can't know with the tools I've got, and I'm probably
not alone.

 

[ZeissFan]

The sample in this survey is too small to be significant.

Considering that the initial run was 1,200 "limited edition" cameras and was sold out followed by a run of black bodies (production unknown) and non-LE cameras, it's not known how many cameras have been sold and whether the responses and percentages here are representative of the entire number of cameras out there.

And it doesn't specify the type of problem and whether it was minor (loose knob) or major (non-working shutter or rangefinder issue ... my problem).

This survey addresses a very small portion of the population: Those people who have computers and who can speak English with some degree of comfort and who own this camera and who peruse this site and who decided to vote.

As I said, I think the sample is too small to try to extrapolate that to the entire group of Zeiss Ikon owners.

Interesting? Sure. Does it have any relevance? Who's to say?

Like all online surveys, I find them interesting but not that useful.

 

[back alley]

read the whole thread guys, i said this is NOT scientific but a general interest sort of thing.

 

[kshapero]

Well here are some ZI pics

Well here are some ZI pics

 

[italy74]

Well, a "I'm NOT a Zeiss owner but I'd like to be soon..." ??? 😉

 

[jwhitley]

Can anyone shine a light for me on the likely methodological
and mathematical validity of this poll, please? Right now
it shows 24% problems.

As others have stated, it's not intended as a scientific poll. Put more plainly for folks who aren't versed in such things, it has about zero validity. The reasons for its non-validity can include:

• self-selection: folks with problems are vastly more likely to find and want to comment on such a poll, conversely a lot of folks without problems may just ignore it
• too small of a sample size: i.e. too few respondents to have any idea of the behavior of the population at large
• question design bias: the phrasing and structure of a poll can affect whether and how people will respond to it.
• ballot-stuffing: internet polls are particularly vulnerable to this, but it may not be an issue here.
• Related to ballot-stuffing, one might also ask whether there are any respondents just messing around who don't even own a ZI?
• Specific to this kind of poll are misdirected responses. Consider the reviewer (was it on Amazon?) who gave a lens a bad rating because it was dropped from 5-6' height onto concrete... and broke. :bang:

From a scientific standpoint, you're safe to assume that any poll which wasn't designed and executed by folks with good experiment design skills is likely not recording what it claims to. That said, simple straw polls do have their place, but I really can't imagine a poll of this type showing useful results, only considering self-selection bias. Do greater than 20% of ZI owners really have problems with their cameras? That sounds very high. Seems that Zeiss, Cosina, and their customers would be flipping out over in-the-field problem rates that high.

 

[foto_fool]

Amazing the life of some of these old threads. It's like this thread in "internet time" has already lasted 50 years in "camera time"! Just astounding. But I like seeing them come back.

I have had my ZI for a year as of earlier this month and had zero problems. I love it no less than they day I opened the box from Matsuiyastore. Also, no more. It is a competent camera that does what it is supposed to do. I like how it handles and still love the VF/RF. My only complaints are 1) that the 75mm Summilux brings up the 50mm frameline instead of the 85mm, 2) that it has lost a bit of paint from the sharp edge in front of the hotshoe, and 3) that I can't remember if it came with a diopter screwed into the VF window and if it did it unscrewed itself and I seem to have lost it.

A few comments on the materials questions posed up-topic: First, plastics are often a better choice for some applications than metal (unrelated example, but illustrative - kevlar vests stop bullets and are light enough to wear - can't say that about brass) and it is a bonus that plastic parts are sometimes less expensive to manufacture. Equating "plastic" with "cheap" is a cultural prejudice - not reality. Second, magnesium alloys are lighter and stronger than brass, which is why racing wheels are made of magnesium. They have different failure modes - magnesium breaks while brass usually deforms - but likely the impact that would break a ZI would turn an M3 into a shapeless lump.

EDIT - forgot to add that I could buy four ZI's (which might last, oh, maybe 120 years in series) for the price of a D3 body I will want to upgrade from in 2 or 3 years. Hmmmmm.

 

[sepiareverb]

...case smells like fish.

I think some of us have some wacky thing going on with the nose. The O serie case I have smells like fish to me- my wife says it smells like 'fine leather', people pay for that you know.

 

[FanMan]

I think some of us have some wacky thing going on with the nose. The O serie case I have smells like fish to me- my wife says it smells like 'fine leather', people pay for that you know.

what is a "O serie case"??

 

[Captain]

too small of a sample size: i.e. too few respondents to have any idea of the behavior of the population at large

This was a poll that finished back in 2006! It was originally set up when the camera was relatively new on the market and trying to establish if there were many early production glitches and to that it served its purpose, im not sure why its been resurrected?

 

[ferider]

Interesting when you compare the results of this poll against that one:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=451

(where more than 40% ZI owners report problems).

Tells you something about polling accuracy 🙂

 

[thomasw_]

Interesting when you compare the results of this poll against that one:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=451

(where more than 40% ZI owners report problems).

Tells you something about polling accuracy 🙂

Also, it tells us that the wording of a poll is critical. This one is all about those who "ARE OWNERS" now, the other asks about "My ZI HAD...". I can't participate in this one, but I can participate in the other. I had a ZI that had troubles, but not owning one now, there is no spot in this current poll to acknowledge my experience. The wording of the poll options will exclude or include and as such, determine its accuracy. For instance, those who ARE OWNERS, will likely be more pleased, have had less troubles than those who were but aren't now.

 

[back alley]

can i also point out that this poll is 2 years old and i am hardly a statistician, tho i am glad that i could spell it!

😉

 

[FanMan]

Also, it tells us that the wording of a poll is critical. This one is all about those who "ARE OWNERS" now, the other asks about "My ZI HAD...". I can't participate in this one, but I can participate in the other. I had a ZI that had troubles, but not owning one now, there is no spot in this current poll to acknowledge my experience. The wording of the poll options will exclude or include and as such, determine its accuracy. For instance, those who ARE OWNERS, will likely be more pleased, have had less troubles than those who were but aren't now.

sounds like an exegesis of a biblical passage ... but please, this was only an attempt to get a simple record of problems.