thinkfloyd
Flippy Nose
Any info on this particular folder? It says on the lens, Novar-Anastigmat 75/4.5.
I just won this on ebay for less than $50. It's in near mint condition (though don't know about it's functionality). I searched here and googled it, but only got sparse information... what do you guys know about this? Thanks!
I just won this on ebay for less than $50. It's in near mint condition (though don't know about it's functionality). I searched here and googled it, but only got sparse information... what do you guys know about this? Thanks!
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Well, it is a Zeiss Nettar model made during the early 40s, in Stuttgart, that takes 6x6 photos on 120 film, using a Novar lens. It has a three-blade shutter (so don't count on great bokeh) and it was one of their medium/low grade camera intended for the amateur market. The higher grade cameras were Ikontas, with Tessars or Skopars and were intended for more serious photography. However, that said, the Novars were among the better of the three-element lenses and should give you very good results. As is common with three element lenses though, you may notice some blurring in the corners when shooting with a wide open aperture (although this is more likely to be a problem with a 6x9 camera). They were available with a variety of shutters. Most had "Vario," "Klio," or "Vero" shutters (simplified and rebadged Prontor S shutters). Other than that, if you look up any other 6x6 Nettar, you'll find pretty much all you need to know.
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
Good info, Fallis, Thanks.
ZeissFan
Veteran
I think that you have the incorrect model number as Zeiss Ikon cameras used only two- or three-digit numbers, a slash ("/") followed by a one- or two-digit number.
In any case, the Nettar served the amateur market. They usually came with a triplet (some type of anastigmat, which includes the Novar) set in a simpler Telma, Klio or Pronto(r) shutter. I think that the Telma and Klio shutters were prewar and were phased out after World War II.
The amateur level models of Zeiss Ikon cameras were well made, and the primary difference between the Nettars and its more expensive cameras generally were the lens/shutter assemblies and often the addition of a rangefinder.
I'll qualify that by adding that most Super Ikontas (except for the 530/16, 532/16 and 533/16) also had Novar-equipped models.
And as always, you should service or have the camera serviced if you expect to use it.
In any case, the Nettar served the amateur market. They usually came with a triplet (some type of anastigmat, which includes the Novar) set in a simpler Telma, Klio or Pronto(r) shutter. I think that the Telma and Klio shutters were prewar and were phased out after World War II.
The amateur level models of Zeiss Ikon cameras were well made, and the primary difference between the Nettars and its more expensive cameras generally were the lens/shutter assemblies and often the addition of a rangefinder.
I'll qualify that by adding that most Super Ikontas (except for the 530/16, 532/16 and 533/16) also had Novar-equipped models.
And as always, you should service or have the camera serviced if you expect to use it.
oftheherd
Veteran
Well, you got me to go look at mine again. I have the 515/2. Do you really think it will blur at the edges wide open? It is an f/6.3 lens. That isn't a fast lens for a 105mm. It does have the Vario shutter. I wasn't aware it was a pronto. I do think the Nettar lens is sharp, or maybe I am confused by the amount of real estate to choose from. I haven't made 20x30 enlargements with it. I was curious
That by the way was one that I have not had to service in any way. The shutter works quite well, and the lens is clean. No pinholes in the bellows, and the window cover is working well and still has the knob to open and close it. The lens board opens well when the button is pushed. I guess I got luck on that one.
chippy
foo was here
i dont think it would blur at the edges wide open so much (although all lenses do get less to some degree toward the edges at full open aperature) as it just doesnt have the resolution or aquetance compared to the tessar across the whole neg, thats not to say ,as you mentioned that the pictures or negs dont look sharp-there is a lot of neg to make up for the 15-25 or so lines of resolution, just that next to the tessar it will have less detail that becomes more noticable the larger the print.
the novar on those also came in f4.5 it may be that it, may blur at the edges (not ness a bad thing, it can be nice for portraits) but i havnt tried it so its just a guess from me. in therory tho it should be comparable as the glass is bigger to make up for it.
the vario and pronto i am prety sure were released at the same time, basically the same shutter but the pronto has self timer, usualy slighty more robust cable release conections and dial.
depending on the year of the shutter they always seem to be a slightly different shutter to each other...but only minor things are different some years, whilst other years the differences can be greater. generaly the way i see it, is the pronto was always meant to be a slightly higher featured shutter than the vario and when the pronto was given an upgrade the vario was slightly upgraded as well i.e; design, speeds, number of leafs increased ect on the next model pronto , then the next model vario was often given some of the previous pronto features, though not the self timer i am pretty sure from memory.
so some vario will have a top of speed 200 (i think it was only the late 50's that vario went to 250) or so and 5 leaf. also some very late vario had 4 speeds (pronto went 4 speed earlier) but mostly they are just 3 speed shutter.
in many cases if i had to choose, i would probably consider the vario a more reliable shutter, the self timer on the pronto can muck up at times (if something is to go wrong this is often it) whereas the vario just seems to work forever (i have some of the first ones and they still work perfect and i havnt touched them), even though it is not as nice to look at or feel/use as the pronto.
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chippy
foo was here
thinkfloyd
Flippy Nose
Thanks guys!
1231/16 was the model number given by the seller. Will double check when it arrives...
Whatever lens, I'm sure I'll be happy with it.
I hope the camera is in as good condition as what the seller says! He says it still has film in it... will this prove to be a problem? Thanks!
1231/16 was the model number given by the seller. Will double check when it arrives...
Whatever lens, I'm sure I'll be happy with it.
I hope the camera is in as good condition as what the seller says! He says it still has film in it... will this prove to be a problem? Thanks!
oftheherd
Veteran
Thanks guys!
1231/16 was the model number given by the seller. Will double check when it arrives...
Whatever lens, I'm sure I'll be happy with it.
Having film in it should cause no problems. The question arises as to whether or not you wish to develop it to see what is there. Chances are the current/previous owners may have been testing the shutter speeds and aperture without winding it on. They may also have been opening the back. There may or may not be anything on the film to salvage. If there is, you the have the problem of how to do it and what you can salvage. I am not experienced with that so I won't try to tell you how to do it.
I do wonder how the current owner can describe it as a working camera (if he did) if it has undeveloped film in it.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Actually, if you do a google search for Nettar 1231/16, you will find quite a few hits -- almost every one of them in Germany or Scandanavia. Different numbering system over there maybe? Maybe a model not realeased elsewhere?
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
your not likely to find a Skopar on any Zeiss Ikon
See what happens when you reply to these things when you are sleepy? Apparently I confused Voigtlander and Zeiss.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
He probably just assumed it was working because the shutter opens and closes.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Not much, but that's probably why the shutter won't open any wider than f/6.3.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
It occurs to me, not that I have checked, that it would make sense to put the f/4.5 Novars on the 6x6 cameras and the f/6.3 Novars on the 6x9 cameras, because of that very problem with edge blurring. You'd have less edge to blurr on the 6x6 cameras and could use a wider aperture.