Matus
Well-known
If I may add a question to the R3A -v- ZI: How does the shutter sound compares? I found R3A quite loud and unpleasant sound-wise. Is ZI quieter or at least "softer" ?
Zeiss Ikon vs Voigtlander R3A
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thegman
Veteran
I own a ZI, and have played with an R3A, I think if you're concerned about money, you could get an R3A and invest in a good lens. The lens takes the picture, and the only difference in actual picture taking between the two is the base length. Others will have better experience than I on this topic, but I've never of anyone have much trouble using a fast 50mm on a Bessa.
I've also never heard of a shutter lag issue on the ZI either though.
If you can pick up a cheap ZI, go for it, they're awesome, otherwise get the R3A and a sweet lens.
For shutter sounds, the ZI is significantly sharper and louder than my brother's Leica M6, but can't compare to R3A.
I've also never heard of a shutter lag issue on the ZI either though.
If you can pick up a cheap ZI, go for it, they're awesome, otherwise get the R3A and a sweet lens.
For shutter sounds, the ZI is significantly sharper and louder than my brother's Leica M6, but can't compare to R3A.
Mister E
Well-known
The Bessa and Ikon have the same shutter. The Ikon sounds just a bit softer.
Nick De Marco
Well-known
I have both (well the R3M and ZI)
I would also say definitely the ZI. It's better built, better framelines and a much better viewfinder.
The only 2 advantages of the R£ (which is a lovely camera) is the greater magnification of the viewfinder and the fact it has 75mm framelines. If you only ever use a 75mm lens, or perhaps only a 75 and a 50, you might just prefer the R3. If you use a range of lenses though, and especially mainly a 35 and/or 50, it's a no brainer -= the ZI wins
I would also say definitely the ZI. It's better built, better framelines and a much better viewfinder.
The only 2 advantages of the R£ (which is a lovely camera) is the greater magnification of the viewfinder and the fact it has 75mm framelines. If you only ever use a 75mm lens, or perhaps only a 75 and a 50, you might just prefer the R3. If you use a range of lenses though, and especially mainly a 35 and/or 50, it's a no brainer -= the ZI wins
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
This shutter lag thing is new to me too ... I honestly can't say I've ever noticed it?
I'm not saying it isn't there but this is the first time I've heard a mention of it.
I'm not saying it isn't there but this is the first time I've heard a mention of it.
michaelstevens
Newbie
Actually another alternative I was thinking about was an M3 with an external meter or guestimating exposure (I only shoot black and white so there's a bit of latitude).
Mister E
Well-known
M3's are great, but not if you want to shoot modern 35mm lenses. I'd get an M4 or M2 if you are willing to shoot without a meter or with an external meter.
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Austerby
Well-known
I'm a bit of a Rangefinder hound and currently own both an R3A and a Zeiss Ikon, plus an M3 and a CLE. In the past I've had a M2, M6ttl and M7.
The R3A is in many ways a very impressive, capable camera that should not be underestimated because it is less expensive than the others. Every camera body has compromises but in truth the R3A's are no more or less than most others. It's a great camera - I'd advise the OP not to worry about baseline length, build quality, ease of use, shutter noise etc
All the comments made here are true and valid (can't say I've noticed shutter lag either but will look out for it now) but you won't go wrong with an R3A.
One comment on baseline length is that the smaller dimensions of the R3A are offset by the 1:1 viewfinder magnification.
An R3A plus the 40mm Voigtlander lens is a great combination - add a 15 or 25mm with the external viewfinder, a 75 or 90mm for a portrait/tele lens and you'll have everything you could ever really need.
The R3A is in many ways a very impressive, capable camera that should not be underestimated because it is less expensive than the others. Every camera body has compromises but in truth the R3A's are no more or less than most others. It's a great camera - I'd advise the OP not to worry about baseline length, build quality, ease of use, shutter noise etc
All the comments made here are true and valid (can't say I've noticed shutter lag either but will look out for it now) but you won't go wrong with an R3A.
One comment on baseline length is that the smaller dimensions of the R3A are offset by the 1:1 viewfinder magnification.
An R3A plus the 40mm Voigtlander lens is a great combination - add a 15 or 25mm with the external viewfinder, a 75 or 90mm for a portrait/tele lens and you'll have everything you could ever really need.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
About this shutter delay!
I want someone else to get their Ikon (I just did this) open the back and hold it up to the light with or without lens ... it doesn't matter. Set the shutter speed on 1/1000 or 1/2000, press down until you feel the point of resistance, look hard at the shutter itself and concentrate ... then quickly press the release the rest of the way. The shutter opens instantly but the sound may lead you to believe that this isn't the case as the majority of the shutter sound seems to occur fractionally after the blades have opened.
Someone else please try this because if there is a delay there I certainly can't detect it!
I want someone else to get their Ikon (I just did this) open the back and hold it up to the light with or without lens ... it doesn't matter. Set the shutter speed on 1/1000 or 1/2000, press down until you feel the point of resistance, look hard at the shutter itself and concentrate ... then quickly press the release the rest of the way. The shutter opens instantly but the sound may lead you to believe that this isn't the case as the majority of the shutter sound seems to occur fractionally after the blades have opened.
Someone else please try this because if there is a delay there I certainly can't detect it!
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Keith: I cannot detect any delay.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
My personal opinion is that shutter sound is something that people on internet forums worry about but makes no difference in actual photography. I mean when you hold the camera up to your face and then advance to the next frame, don't people know you have taken a photo anyway? I have cameras with leaf shutters which are close to silent as well as an SLR (Bronica SQA) with a really loud mirror slap and still see no difference in actual shooting. All the focal plane rangefinders are somewhere between those two sound wise.
But that is just the way I see it, YMMV.
VoodooXT
Newbie
Mister E
Well-known
I'll give it a try when I get home, but put the camera in a dark room with a low ISO setting on AE and do the same thing. That is the condition where I not the lag, not in bright conditions where I would get a 1/1000 or 1/2000th speed and not in manual mode.
Steve M.
Veteran
With a 35 or 50mm lens I don't think the RF base length matters. I had a Leica CL, and used a Summicron 40mm and a couple of 50mm lenses, and the focus was always spot on wide open. Never owned a Z1 but currently own an R2a and love it. I also owned an R3a once and really prefer the R2a because I wear glasses and the 50mm frame lines are fully visible w/ the R2a. You could always put an adapter on your Nikon and put a Leica R lens on it too. It's hard to beat a SLR for critical wide open focusing, to me anyway, but you'd be giving up a lot in weight and size w/ the Nikon.
Mister E
Well-known
A 50/1.4 @ f/1.4 and .7m the baselength certainly makes a difference.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I tried this just now ... in a very gloomy room at f4 the AE selected a shutter speed of 1/2 second but looking (staring) at the shutter blades the result was identical. The blades snap open the instant the shutter is pressed.
I'm seriously beginnin to wonder if there is an issue with your particular camera ... but then again you said you've noticed it with two separate Ikon bodies. 😕
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Maybe it's just slow hearing ... pardon? ......slow hearing.
Nate, could the shutter lag problem be related to using depleted LR44 (alkaline) batteries near the end of their service life? The power output on these slowly drops as they get depleted. SR44 (silver-oxide) batteries will give you more consistent power output over the life of the battery, and they should also last noticeably longer.
Mister E
Well-known
I've noticed it on 4 separate Ikon bodies, but I'll toss in some fresh SR44 batteries tonight and see what happens. Funny that my FE2 can run for a year on two cheap LR44's but my picky Ikon doesn't even last a month on them.
The LR44 batteries shouldn't be a problem, but its the only thing I can think of. I've always used SR44 batteries in my FM3As and Zeiss Ikons and never had any problems, although the Zeiss Ikons do go through batteries at a faster rate. I get a lot more than 20 rolls out of a set of batteries though.
