Zeiss Ikon when battery died - A dumb question

S

Steven-T

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I am going to an extreme climate area (5,000m altitude, snow, rain, humidity 99.99%, below -20 deg-C, ...). If the battery died, besides losing metering, what else will I lose too?

This must be a very dumb question. But please be patient with me, and laugh in a low voice. Thanks.

PS: Besides using the ZI for B&W regularly, I am considering buying the ZI also to backup my 2 Canon 5D's for a coming February 2007 photography trip.

Steven
 
A little while ago I was in western sichuan china, around 4800 meters, snow, rain, dont know about the humidity but it was wet, and the temperature was pretty cold in the mornings. My little yashica gsn had no problems at all. Everyone else's canon 20D's and Nikon D70's on the other hand were totally dead, which is what your Ikon will be like. My advice is to have three sets of batteries, two in a warm place on your body and one in the camera, and switch them every 10-15 minutes.
 
Western Sichuan, China? Daocheng-Aden, the 3 holy Mts? I was there in November!

This time, I am going to the Patkistan/Xinjiang/Kazastan Highlands in Februbary 2007. This time will be much worse. We will be trekking high! For some of the days, changing battery will not be a good option.

Back to the ZI. If the battery died, I think all I lose is metering, isn't it? I am ok using my head as a "meter"! This is what happens with M6, I believe. Otherwise I will get a used M6.

Greetings,

Steven

Avotius said:
A little while ago I was in western sichuan china, around 4800 meters, snow, rain, dont know about the humidity but it was wet, and the temperature was pretty cold in the mornings. My little yashica gsn had no problems at all. Everyone else's canon 20D's and Nikon D70's on the other hand were totally dead, which is what your Ikon will be like. My advice is to have three sets of batteries, two in a warm place on your body and one in the camera, and switch them every 10-15 minutes.
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without batteries the zi is a paper weight.

i live in western canada where it gets really cold, a few weeks ago it was -40 with the windchill for almost 2 weeks.
i use the zi in the winter and have had no problems so far.
i shoot when it's around -10 to -20 for periods of maybe 30 to 60 minutes or so at a time. then i put the camera in my small bag and walk into a store for a few minutes, more to warm me than the camera.
 
If the battery dies, the camera dies. The ZI has no back-up mechanical shutter operation. The shutter is triggered by an electro-magnet, which requires a battery to function.
 
What the others have said :) My ZI handled 2-3 hours at -10C. Ice was condensed at the bottom, etc. Now.. I laughed when my friends during this outing had to keep changing batteries for their dslrs. But they had the equal laugh when I tried to change film :eek: I didn't come prepared for the cold weather, wearing only jeans, long sleeved shirt, and a jacket. With a shivering body and frozen, numb fingers, it took considerable effort (10 minutes each time?) for me to change film :p
 
I was thinking the ZI is only using the battery for metering. It is actually an "electronic" RF after all!!!

Need to look for something else. The used M*'s are so expensive these days. I will be wearing gloves (mittens if ok). So I need a little light mechanical toy for backup, easy to operate with gloves in absolute extreme weather. I may not be asking for too much, but just everything!

Thanks all.

Steven
 
Steven-T said:
So I need a little light mechanical toy for backup, easy to operate with gloves in absolute extreme weather.
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You want to find a Leica CL then. A good one with working meter will set you back ~$400 & with luck will include the 40/2 Summicron at that. If you find an user body, with meter dead or inaccurate, they can be as low as $200 :D I've found it very easy to use with gloves on. It does take an old mercury battery, but it can be recalibrated for silver oxide or you can use hearing aid/Wien cells in it. If the battery goes all you loose is the meter.

Only real down side is there are only frame lines for 40, 50 & 90 lenses, though I find that the whole frame does a good job for my 28.

William
 
This is the old R2, not the current R2A/3A/2M/3M etc ..., isn't it? The new ones seem all having AE and using an electronic shutter. I will do some search.

Thanks.

Steven

back alley said:
get a bessa r2, m mount, battery is for meter only.
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Like this one on Adorama: http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20233375.html

I am not familiar with the CL. How different is this CL from M3 or M6? Thanks.

Steven

wlewisiii said:
You want to find a Leica CL then. A good one with working meter will set you back ~$400 & with luck will include the 40/2 Summicron at that. If you find an user body, with meter dead or inaccurate, they can be as low as $200 :D I've found it very easy to use with gloves on. It does take an old mercury battery, but it can be recalibrated for silver oxide or you can use hearing aid/Wien cells in it. If the battery goes all you loose is the meter.

Only real down side is there are only frame lines for 40, 50 & 90 lenses, though I find that the whole frame does a good job for my 28.

William
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The batteries in most digital cameras are lithium-ion cells, which can't work in extreme cold. The silver-oxide cells used in 'real' cameras work in much colder conditions just fine, bring some extra, they are small.
The shutter dial on the Leica CL may be easy enough to manipulate with gloves on, but it might be a challenge in thick gloves to change film, as the back comes all the way off, but that may just make it easier.
 
During my days in the navy I shot a Contax RTS around the polar circle. The two silver oxyde batteries didn't last as long as expected but the camera never failed during the time I could stay outside at some -40°C.

I had to go inside to change film on the other hand.
 
Steven-T said:
This is the old R2, not the current R2A/3A/2M/3M etc ..., isn't it? The new ones seem all having AE and using an electronic shutter. I will do some search.

Thanks.

Steven
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Nope.

The current R2M & are R3M are not AE & do not have electronic shutters. "M" is for manual & "M" is for mechanical. The new R2M is an upgraded version of the old R2. The R3M is an all manual & all mechanical version of the R3A. In both, the battery is used only for metering.

Another alternative id you like the 40 mm focal length is the Rollei 35 RF, an R2 adapted for Rollei by Cosina & still readily available new. Like the R2, it has 0.7 magnification, making the 40 mm frame lines easier to see than the ones on the R3A & R3M. It is all manual & all mechanical.
 
Huck Finn said:
Nope.

The current R2M & are R3M are not AE & do not have electronic shutters. "M" is for manual & "M" is for mechanical. The new R2M is an upgraded version of the old R2. The R3M is an all manual & all mechanical version of the R3A. In both, the battery is used only for metering.

Another alternative id you like the 40 mm focal length is the Rollei 35 RF, an R2 adapted for Rollei by Cosina & still readily available new. Like the R2, it has 0.7 magnification, making the 40 mm frame lines easier to see than the ones on the R3A & R3M. It is all manual & all mechanical.
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I think the "M" in R2M/R3M should be m+m too. But B&H site says they have AE. That's why I think they are also electronic. It seems they are incorrect.

Also in B&H, the Rollei 35 RF weighs 425g, and R2M weighs 430g. But then the R2M is 0.5" thicker than Rollei. Is this because the Rollei has more metal and R2M more plastic?

Initially my eyes are really on CV. But the online sites (e.g. B&H) seems to indicate the newer R*A/R*M models are electronic, which seems inaccurate for the R2M/R3M.

Thanks. Everyone here has been so helpful. Much appreciated.

Steven
 
Steven-T said:
I think the "M" in R2M/R3M should be m+m too. But B&H site says they have AE. That's why I think they are also electronic. It seems they are incorrect.

Also in B&H, the Rollei 35 RF weighs 425g, and R2M weighs 430g. But then the R2M is 0.5" thicker than Rollei. Is this because the Rollei has more metal and R2M more plastic?

Initially my eyes are really on CV. But the online sites (e.g. B&H) seems to indicate the newer R*A/R*M models are electronic, which seems inaccurate for the R2M/R3M.

Thanks. Everyone here has been so helpful. Much appreciated.

Steven
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Jep, B&H must be right, they never make an error in advertising. But would it realy help with more "M"s in the name?

Think of it as R2Manual and R2Automatic but don't forget that AE is a feature which can be switched off on the A but not on on the M.

The roughly 1% difference in weight between the older Rollei 35RF and newer R2A or M can be due to allmost everything, one reason could be the different body covering another the 4 years between the Rollei and the R2M.

And again to electronicaly controlled shutters in cold environements, 4 hours watch on a Charles F. Adams Class destroyers open bridge in the Barents sea and the "electronic" Contax RTS did better than I did. I had more problems with broken film than with the shutter.
 
Socke said:
Jep, B&H must be right, they never make an error in advertising. But would it realy help with more "M"s in the name?

Think of it as R2Manual and R2Automatic but don't forget that AE is a feature which can be switched off on the A but not on on the M.

The roughly 1% difference in weight between the older Rollei 35RF and newer R2A or M can be due to allmost everything, one reason could be the different body covering another the 4 years between the Rollei and the R2M.

And again to electronicaly controlled shutters in cold environements, 4 hours watch on a Charles F. Adams Class destroyers open bridge in the Barents sea and the "electronic" Contax RTS did better than I did. I had more problems with broken film than with the shutter.
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Understand. My experience is that besides low temperature, which relates more to battery/power problem, humidity is no friend to digital cameras / electronics. With both high humidity and low temperature, digital cameras are prone to problems. If you can dry/warm the camera regularly, e.g. in the hotel, after a day's outing, that helps. But when you are out in the wilderness, and tired to death, then it is another story.

Thanks for your contructive comments.

Steven
 
Steven-T said:
Understand. My experience is that besides low temperature, which relates more to battery/power problem, humidity is no friend to digital cameras / electronics. With both high humidity and low temperature, digital cameras are prone to problems. If you can dry/warm the camera regularly, e.g. in the hotel, after a day's outing, that helps. But when you are out in the wilderness, and tired to death, then it is another story.

Thanks for your contructive comments.

Steven
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Barents sea! I used the cameras on a warship with an open bridge, i.E. outside with saltwater spray. With some 140,000 nautical miles in 7 years from the caribbean sea to the north of the polar circle back to the mediteranian sea, on private travels between the caribbean and china, northern norway and southern portugal my private Yashica FX-D never failed, it looks realy ugly without the covering, but it works!
I had my camera with me on several strong wind regattas from Bremen to Heligoland which we took part in, but they where stored in the ship. No time to shoot a camera when you sail a 36 foot yacht in gale force 10 :)

The metal zipper on my Rollei 35TE pouch got stuck and I had to cut it open, the Rollei itself has been serviced twice for an inacurate meter and once for a stuck shutter.

So from my experience an electronic controled shutter is better than a mechanical one.

This may be different for people hiking to the pole or climbing the K2, usualy I had something closely resembling a bed to sleep in once every two nights and a warm meal every 24 hours or so, I like it comfortable :)

Oh, and humidity, ever been on a submarine? When they emerge the moisture condenses out of the air and forms a thick fog in the boat.
 
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