Zeiss Ikon's shutter lag?

[Huck Finn]

Regit, seriously the lag is next to nothing on the R3a and as you say it's basically the same shutter, I guess Ziess use different shutter damping and quality control.

Actually there more of a difference than that. It's the electronic control mechanism that's the major difference between the two - & this could have a significant difference on shutter delay. However, Puts is the only one that I've seen report on this stuff on a RF because everyone figures that shutter delay on a RF is so insignificant regardless of what it is that it's a major improvement over an AF SLR whether it's film or digital. So, I think that we'll just have to wait for Erwin's report to come out to know this.

However, Regit, you might consider e-mailing an inquiry to info@zeissikon.com. If the Zeiss engineers have measured this & if this information is in their data bank, I guarantee you that Erland Pettersson, the Camera Systems Product Manager will get the information for you or he will put you in touch with someone who can.

I suspect that the ZI has a longer shutter delay than the M7 or MP because it has a higher flash synch & I think that the timing needed to coordinate the two is a factor in specifying what the shutter delay should be.

Huck

 

[back alley]

on a somewhat related topic...how does the new zeizz ikon's shutter release feel?
what kind of pressure is needed to plunge it far enough to release the shutter?

i have mini soft releases on all the canon p's and they (for me) make a nice difference in the feel but i'm wondering if they would be needed on a newer camera?

 

[ZeissFan]

Thank you for the suggestion, Mike. I actually want to call the local distributor for the information but it is Sunday and I was hoping the people here would know... I'll give them a ring tomorrow.

I would doubt any of us would be able to give you hard numbers. In use, the delay is imperceptible.

However, all shutter releases have some delay, whether they be mechanical or electronic. Zeiss Ikon has done an excellent job with the release because the "feel" seems just about right. The travel to the release point is where you would expect.

One of the things that always irked me about the M6 was that the release point is near the bottom of the travel distance. Worse, are those that are near the top -- too light a touch sets it off.

I've been playing a bit with a Nikon S, and the shutter release point also is slightly too deep for me. I missed the timing of a couple of shots because of that.

I had started work on the Nikon S two years ago, got stuck, put all of the parts into a box and put it aside. I reassembled it two weeks ago. And managed not to lose any of the parts in the two years.

 

[back alley]

on a somewhat related topic...how does the new zeizz ikon's shutter release feel?
what kind of pressure is needed to plunge it far enough to release the shutter?

i have mini soft releases on all the canon p's and they (for me) make a nice difference in the feel but i'm wondering if they would be needed on a newer camera?

i'm gonna quote myself cause i think the question got lost...

 

[Patman]

Regit, The Ikon uses the latest electronic Copol shutter plus it has been fine-tuned to Zeiss's specifications and high German standards.Yes, I can answer this. About $2600 USD. 😎

You talk about german standards and yet the ikon is manufactured in Japan. I have yet to see a german product remanufactured in Japan that is as good as the original!

I think you guys are all going a little kon crazy i have yet to see a photo on this site taken with Ikon glass that i would call exceptional.

 

[Palaeoboy]

"I have yet to see a german product remanufactured in Japan that is as good as the original!"

You then must never have compared German made Zeiss lenses with Japanese made Zeiss lenses for the Contax system. I have never heard any Contax users ever claim that was the case either. Only the complaint that for no reason the German made versions would fetch higher prices.

 

[drmatthes]

Kinda 'ggressive subtone in this thread, ain't it? ... Hey guys, RF is for rangefinders not religious faith.

You know the parabolic ring tale by G.E. Lessing (no, not Doris Lessing!), with the father (let's say Oskar Barnack 😉 ) giving three identical rings to his sons, instead of giving one to his most beloved. Only one of them can be the right ring, but which one is it?

I recommend several tests:

The wealthiest of you goes out to get an M7, a R3a and a ZI and constructs a device that releases the shutter and measures time until the first photon hits the film plane. Nice job for a thesis in applied optics.

For a thesis in statistics the procedure would be 10.000 releases in at least 60 cameras of each brand to reach significance level in the chi-square test. Any sheiks around?

For a thesis in quantum mechanics bear in mind that according to Heisenberg velocity and location of a photon cannot be determined at the same time, a problem that increases with smaller intervals of time, so you better not conduct the test with single photons or too quick a shutter release.

Last, it would be an option to have John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Gary Cooper in front of a swinging saloon door with the three brand eveready cases shooting at each other, but I cannot come to think of the name of the test. It's not a duel. A trial?

Jesko

___________________________

2006 AD
800 yrs Dresden
80 yrs Zeiss Ikon

(these are time spans that can easily be compared!)

 

[Bertram2]

You talk about german standards and yet the ikon is manufactured in Japan.

Standards are refering to process, tolerance, quality control and so on. A Standard X is a standard X , under water , on the moon and even in Japan, believe me.
If Zeiss wants a tolerance X it will GET a tolerance X no matter where the stuff is made.

bertram

 

[Fred]

Huck, thanks for the clarification.

I guess the M7 shutter lag like any other camera will affect the way we shoot, you just get used to compensating for it without thinking. The attached example at Warwick Castle was taken with a M7 and 90mm on Velvia 50 and a shutter of roughtly 30th. Not a great shot I know but shows that a big shutter lag would have resulted in a much worse shot.

 

[Huck Finn]

Great picture, Fred! Was it taken by one of your ancestors back in the 13th century with an early Leica? 😉

Huck

 

[Fred]

Huck, thanks for the kind words, had to wait a century or two for the developer to err... be developed 🙂

Long shelf life of the olde worlde Fuju Velvia. Discontinued now. The odd archiologist might have some knocking about though. 😉 Odd supplies found at various digs.

 

[James Burton]

i'm gonna quote myself cause i think the question got lost...

Nope, I was just hoping that someone with more than a few minutes experience would answer. I played with it in a shop for a while.

It has a shutter button like a modern SLR. Very short throw. 1/2 press starts up the meter (this is when you're supposed to auto-focus by hand 🙂, full press releases the curtains. The button is non-mechanical by which I mean you are not releasing a catch, rather closing contacts. The only reason I could think of using a soft release would be to make the button easier to find without looking. Oh and also so that you don't start pressing the shutter speed dial by mistake 🙂 Sounds funny, but I do that with some cameras and have to look to see why it isn't going off.

Thanks,
James

 

[Bertram2]

For a thesis in statistics the procedure would be 10.000 releases in at least 60 cameras of each brand to reach significance level in the chi-square test. Any sheiks around?

For a thesis in quantum mechanics bear in mind that according to Heisenberg velocity and location of a photon cannot be determined at the same time, a problem that increases with smaller intervals of time, so you better not conduct the test with single photons or too quick a shutter release.

Last, it would be an option to have John Wayne, Clint Eastwood and Gary Cooper in front of a swinging saloon door with the three brand eveready cases shooting at each other, but I cannot come to think of the name of the test. It's not a duel. A trial?

Jesko

Perfect ! 🙂
But I doubt it will enlighten those who are adressed. Because bias has an enormous moment of inertia, which means physically that the more you slap on it the less it moves ! In other words: Sysiphos. 🙄

bertram

 

[Frank Granovski]

Sorry, I made a mistake. The amount I posted earlier was the R3A's shutter lag. The correct answer for the Ikon's 'lag is, about $2,000.00 USD. (That's what you have to slap onto the Ikon in order to buy an M7.) Thank you very much and have a nice day. 😎

Seriously, I don't think the extra 2 Grand is worth it. Do you? 😱

PS: for the price of 1 Leica M7, you can buy 6 Bessa R3A's. Hey! If I bought 6 R3A's I'd probably get a discount to boot.

 

[VinceC]

Seems to me Leitz spent some time in the early 1960s testing the shutter lag on Ms and other manufacturers' SLRs in hopes of proving that the shutter lag on an SLR made in harder to get the "decisive moment." My recollection was that their tests -- of mechanical cameras -- found the difference to be in the thousandths of a second, small enough as to be meaningless compared to even an acute human's reflect time ... in the 100ths of a second.

 

[back alley]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder frank.

 

[ZeissFan]

The shutter release travel is very short -- I would guess maybe 0.5mm (maybe shorter) in two stages. I see no need for a soft release with the Zeiss Ikon. I've always felt the soft release for the Leica was to compensate for poor design. The M6 was much easier to use with a soft release.

The electronic release of the Zeiss Ikon is a good one because it's predictive. You know exactly how much pressure and how much travel is required to release the shutter.

 

[regit]

Sorry, I made a mistake. The amount I posted earlier was the R3A's shutter lag. The correct answer for the Ikon's 'lag is, about $2,000.00 USD. (That's what you have add to slap onto the Ikon to buy an M7.) Thank you very much and have a nice day. 😎

Seriously, I don't think the extra 2 Grand is worth it. Do you? 😱

PS: for the price of 1 Leica M7, you can buy 6 Bessa R3A's.

Seriously, don't you think comparing 2 cameras based solely on dollar-value is a little short-sighted? I guess you would make the same argument for a Casio vs Patek comparision...

In anycase, my question is a relatively straight forward one regarding the Ikon. Not sure why you would bring up the Leica M7 and Voigtlander R3a, and continue to voice your opinions against the M7 and justify your own purchase of the R3a 😕 Nonetheless, this is a public forum and you're free to say whatever you wish in whatever context you see fit (within the limits of the forum rules)... Personally, I will skip over your posts here on.

Again, I would like to thank all those who give constructive comments and advice to my question.

 

[Taipei-metro]

Does anyone know the shutter lag of the Ikon?

37 msec. following # should be msec.

50 or less, fast shutter.
80 or less, kinda fast shutter.
120 or slower, you feel the shutter lag.

F5, 47. EOS 1-V, 57. Contax RTS III, 60.
F100 62, EOS 3 59, Maxxum 7 85,
EOS 7 99. FM3A 48. Contax RX 99.
EOS 1v HS, 55. EOS RT 15.
N80 134, Contax Aria 159, Pentax MZ-S 122
Leica M2 26
Fuji one-time-use disposble 0

Believe it or not....

 

[Graham Line]

12 ms would be remarkably fast. In Pop Photo's June 2000 test of the Konica Hexar RF, they listed its shutter lag at 120 ms. I don't know if they were still including this number at the time of their M7 review. None of the material I have on the Minolta CLE mentions shutter lag.