D&A
Well-known
It's sort of ironic I happned to unexpectedly stumble upon this thread a few minutes ago. I was just about to post an observation with an aquantences 50mm Lux asph and the "play" or wobble I've noticed in his lens. The wobble is the front half of the lens relative to the rear half. It can be felt whether the lens is on the camera or held in hand (all external screws are tight). This is the second 50mm Lux asph sample I've noticed this in. It has a floating elemt (or grouping) and thought for a second that maybe it's just in the design of the lens but havn't heard from others who own the 50mm Lux asph.
On a seperate issue regarding Hexanon-M lenses and whether they mis-focus on a properly adjusted Leica body or not, I will have to respectfully disagree with those that say the initial run of Hexanon-M lenses focused just fine on Leica bodies.
I happend to have strong contacts with a Photographic equipment distributer when the Hexar RF and lenses were first released in the U.S. I was able to test samples of the 28, 50 and 90mm lens (the first focal lengths to be released) during the course of the 1st years run. I can tell you emphatically that most of the lens mis-focused on virtually every single properly adjusted Lecia film body at the time...in carefully controlled experiments. Yet those same exact lenses focused perfectly on the Hexar RF. It was reported to Konica and ultimately they acknowledged that this was the case. After that approx 1st year, I was no longer involved with this RF or lens line, so I cannot say what if any changes or adjustments were made. It's possible things changed after a period of time.
Just recently I sold a brand new Hexanon-M 28mm f2.8 and it focused perfectly on a M8.2 and M9. My guess based on my knowledge when it was purchased, is that it was manufactured a few years after the initial run of Hexanon-M lenses...if that says anything.
So each time I read that that there was no differences regarding flange to film plane differences in those approx 1st year run of Hexanon-M lenses relative to Leica M lenses, is just a somewhat mis-informed statement. What I absolutely don't know, is if Konica decided to change things or not. So often stopping down and increased depth of field covered up the focusing anaomoly and/or people either were printing small prints and didn't notice focusing errors or assumed they mis-focused.
Anyhow, I'll be interested to hear if anyone with a 50mm Lux asph also experienced or detects some lens wobble in their lens. Thanks!
Dave (D&A)
On a seperate issue regarding Hexanon-M lenses and whether they mis-focus on a properly adjusted Leica body or not, I will have to respectfully disagree with those that say the initial run of Hexanon-M lenses focused just fine on Leica bodies.
I happend to have strong contacts with a Photographic equipment distributer when the Hexar RF and lenses were first released in the U.S. I was able to test samples of the 28, 50 and 90mm lens (the first focal lengths to be released) during the course of the 1st years run. I can tell you emphatically that most of the lens mis-focused on virtually every single properly adjusted Lecia film body at the time...in carefully controlled experiments. Yet those same exact lenses focused perfectly on the Hexar RF. It was reported to Konica and ultimately they acknowledged that this was the case. After that approx 1st year, I was no longer involved with this RF or lens line, so I cannot say what if any changes or adjustments were made. It's possible things changed after a period of time.
Just recently I sold a brand new Hexanon-M 28mm f2.8 and it focused perfectly on a M8.2 and M9. My guess based on my knowledge when it was purchased, is that it was manufactured a few years after the initial run of Hexanon-M lenses...if that says anything.
So each time I read that that there was no differences regarding flange to film plane differences in those approx 1st year run of Hexanon-M lenses relative to Leica M lenses, is just a somewhat mis-informed statement. What I absolutely don't know, is if Konica decided to change things or not. So often stopping down and increased depth of field covered up the focusing anaomoly and/or people either were printing small prints and didn't notice focusing errors or assumed they mis-focused.
Anyhow, I'll be interested to hear if anyone with a 50mm Lux asph also experienced or detects some lens wobble in their lens. Thanks!
Dave (D&A)
Avotius
Some guy
I have three ZM lenses. All black. The 3 chrome lenses I have handled all feel better and none have had issues. Every ZM lens I have felt that had a problem was black.
50 f2. Lots of wobble, also the lubricants have dried up so the lens squeals when you turn the focus ring. In cold weather this is much worse, and it is very rough to focus. In warm weather its better, but still not great and still squeals. Can also feel the bits inside the lens rubbing and "bouncing" off each other when focusing. Worried it might start rubbing metal. Want to send it for repair but seriously concerned about Chinese customs and getting the lens back without paying a tax that would be almost as much as just buying another.
28 f2.8. Some wobble. When I bought this lens I checked it before buying it and it was fine. After very light use it developed wobble issues. Now focus ring also developing uneven feeling. The lubricants may be starting to dry up already and I can feel the focus ring has uneven resistance through the focusing range.
21 f2.8. Perfect except that the focus ring moves a little more freely than I would prefer. Much easier than the 50 or 28. This is my most used lens. Interestingly enough it has that two level mounting ring, so coding it was simple and it doesn't rub off where my 28 and 50 have the old single level ring.
50 f2. Lots of wobble, also the lubricants have dried up so the lens squeals when you turn the focus ring. In cold weather this is much worse, and it is very rough to focus. In warm weather its better, but still not great and still squeals. Can also feel the bits inside the lens rubbing and "bouncing" off each other when focusing. Worried it might start rubbing metal. Want to send it for repair but seriously concerned about Chinese customs and getting the lens back without paying a tax that would be almost as much as just buying another.
28 f2.8. Some wobble. When I bought this lens I checked it before buying it and it was fine. After very light use it developed wobble issues. Now focus ring also developing uneven feeling. The lubricants may be starting to dry up already and I can feel the focus ring has uneven resistance through the focusing range.
21 f2.8. Perfect except that the focus ring moves a little more freely than I would prefer. Much easier than the 50 or 28. This is my most used lens. Interestingly enough it has that two level mounting ring, so coding it was simple and it doesn't rub off where my 28 and 50 have the old single level ring.
Turtle
Veteran
There are several issues I have noted with mine (21 2.8, 28, 25 f2, 50 planar):
My 21 & 28 has a little play in the focus ring.
The 35 f2 has play in the focus ring and the wobbles. The lube is dry and focus extremely inconsistent in feel. Its stiff as hell, then frees up to feel almost loose and then even.
The 50 planar has miniscule wobbles and focus is not smooth anymore
None of the above have been heavily used at all. Not even close. I think a lot is related to the lube used. When new I noticed that both lenses continued to focus smoothly and without great effort even at -12 or -15 degs C. My Leica lenses were seriously stiff. I am going to speculate that as well as the retaining ring (easy fix) and other defects that may cause irreparable wobbles, the lube is problematic and possibly too thin to work with the other tolerances i.e. a thicker lube is required to prevent the wobbles while allowing decent gaps in the helix. With thinner lube, the gaps allow for wobbles even if everything is as it should be. It also seems to vanish and leave you with a knotty lens. Stiff as a board one second and then on ball bearings the next.
While a trip to Zeiss might be one solution (yeah, bloody annoying and expensive for something that should NOT happen with so many new lenses) I will wait and get mine to someone who will use thread lock on retaining rings and a different lube. DAG or Sherry K perhaps. Not only are they cheaper but frankly I am not convinced Zeiss 'factory specs' are where i want my lenses to return to.
Optically they have all been stunning and continue to be so. But the 'knock' you get when fine focusing annoys the hell out of me with the lenses with focus ring play. All lenses developed this very soon after use but seeing as I was in Afghanistan and in dire need of the lenses to shoot with I had no choice but to keep shooting and ignore the expiry of the warranty.
Interestingly the wobbles etc might have been a pain but the ONLY problems I have had with cameras and lenses that have resulted in me not being able to get shots (or having them ruined, or having to wait ages on repair on new items) are with Leica, CV and Canon. Every ZM has been smack on out of the box in terms of optical performance. Each has blown me away. So did my 24 lux, but Tony tested it for me first
He sent the first sample back to Leica and sent me the second example .... The next Leica lens I got was a 75 summarit that only focused at min and max focus LOL! It was off everywhere in between - miles off at about 10ft (feet off) and it took 6 weeks at Leica and 10 days postage each way on my part to get it back. But boy is that lens good.
My 21 & 28 has a little play in the focus ring.
The 35 f2 has play in the focus ring and the wobbles. The lube is dry and focus extremely inconsistent in feel. Its stiff as hell, then frees up to feel almost loose and then even.
The 50 planar has miniscule wobbles and focus is not smooth anymore
None of the above have been heavily used at all. Not even close. I think a lot is related to the lube used. When new I noticed that both lenses continued to focus smoothly and without great effort even at -12 or -15 degs C. My Leica lenses were seriously stiff. I am going to speculate that as well as the retaining ring (easy fix) and other defects that may cause irreparable wobbles, the lube is problematic and possibly too thin to work with the other tolerances i.e. a thicker lube is required to prevent the wobbles while allowing decent gaps in the helix. With thinner lube, the gaps allow for wobbles even if everything is as it should be. It also seems to vanish and leave you with a knotty lens. Stiff as a board one second and then on ball bearings the next.
While a trip to Zeiss might be one solution (yeah, bloody annoying and expensive for something that should NOT happen with so many new lenses) I will wait and get mine to someone who will use thread lock on retaining rings and a different lube. DAG or Sherry K perhaps. Not only are they cheaper but frankly I am not convinced Zeiss 'factory specs' are where i want my lenses to return to.
Optically they have all been stunning and continue to be so. But the 'knock' you get when fine focusing annoys the hell out of me with the lenses with focus ring play. All lenses developed this very soon after use but seeing as I was in Afghanistan and in dire need of the lenses to shoot with I had no choice but to keep shooting and ignore the expiry of the warranty.
Interestingly the wobbles etc might have been a pain but the ONLY problems I have had with cameras and lenses that have resulted in me not being able to get shots (or having them ruined, or having to wait ages on repair on new items) are with Leica, CV and Canon. Every ZM has been smack on out of the box in terms of optical performance. Each has blown me away. So did my 24 lux, but Tony tested it for me first
He sent the first sample back to Leica and sent me the second example .... The next Leica lens I got was a 75 summarit that only focused at min and max focus LOL! It was off everywhere in between - miles off at about 10ft (feet off) and it took 6 weeks at Leica and 10 days postage each way on my part to get it back. But boy is that lens good.RobertB
Established
Its a petty the ZM's have these issues. I really like the picture quality. I even heard my camerastore stops selling the ZM'n because the problems they have with them (build and on the M9)
Have a 28 with a wobble in it and it just irritates me. But the picture quality is still stunning.
My 50 planar didn't had any problems. Light focusing and no play at all.
Yesterday bought the 18 SE leica and wanted to try the 18 distagon before getting the leica. There was play in the focus ring and it felt like a wobble starting to happen. So took the leica.
Reading Avotius's story, I am thinking of a 35/2.8, and liked the silver on black body. So might just take the silver one
Have a 28 with a wobble in it and it just irritates me. But the picture quality is still stunning.
My 50 planar didn't had any problems. Light focusing and no play at all.
Yesterday bought the 18 SE leica and wanted to try the 18 distagon before getting the leica. There was play in the focus ring and it felt like a wobble starting to happen. So took the leica.
Reading Avotius's story, I am thinking of a 35/2.8, and liked the silver on black body. So might just take the silver one
kzphoto
Well-known
I owned a first generation ZM 35/2, never had any issues.
sanmich
Veteran
Black Planar, no issues (apart of being totally redundant )
)
sanmich
Veteran
It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation between reported built problems and the lens finish.
Chrome Leica lenses are built differently than black ones. IIRC they are all in brass while some parts in the black ones are aluminum.
Does someone know if there is such a difference with ZM lenses?
How could this be related to the built problems??
Riverman
Well-known
My C Biogon is going back to Zeiss to check out a slight lens wobble problem. Pretty frustrating and not really what I expected from a lens of that price. It's a shame because the lens itself is fantastic optically.
MCTuomey
Veteran
I've owned several Zeiss ZM lenses, bought new and used. If I were buying any today, I'd either buy new with the 2-year warranty or buy used and budget for $175 CLA at Zeiss. At some point my guess is that the price of used ZM lenses will reflect the probability of a CLA.
Good luck with the repair, Riverman. It's worth it, no?
Good luck with the repair, Riverman. It's worth it, no?
aleksanderpolo
Established
Can the ones who notice wobble issue note their color here? I have owned two chrome ones, both feel the same with no noticeable wobble.
MCTuomey
Veteran
My issues have been only with black ZMs, never having owned any silver finish ones.
chakra
Newbie
I have used two 35 f2 Biogons and both have wobbled a tiny bit. The 50 Summicron on an M3 is rock solid. But all of this could well be sample variation or camera/lens body taking more knocks than the other. I do use the Zeiss Ikon ZM + 35 f2 Biogon most of the time. Takes beautiful pictures. That is what matters.
- Santanu
www.santanuchakraborty.com
- Santanu
www.santanuchakraborty.com
MCTuomey
Veteran
santanu, were the two biogon 35s you've used black or silver finish?
Gary B
Established
ZM lenses
ZM lenses
I have had my 25 for almost 4 years. It is the prime lens that I use on my M8. I just had a local repair person do a CLA on the lens because the grease had tightened up and the lens had a tight point as I focused the lens. It now works as good as new and is still one of the sharpest lenses that I own for my Leica.
ZM lenses
I have had my 25 for almost 4 years. It is the prime lens that I use on my M8. I just had a local repair person do a CLA on the lens because the grease had tightened up and the lens had a tight point as I focused the lens. It now works as good as new and is still one of the sharpest lenses that I own for my Leica.
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
I don't have any zeiss wobble. I do have zeiss bumps, but hesitate to exhibit them on a family friendly website.
Gary Briggs
mamiyaDude
I have the 35/2.8, gives wonderful pics...
Not sure what you mean by wobble, but the focus seems to slip somethimes...in a circular way.
Not sure what you mean by wobble, but the focus seems to slip somethimes...in a circular way.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Gary, my term for that is focus ring play. I had Zeiss re-lube and adjust a 35 f2 that had play at the beginning and end of any movement of the focus ring. Not cheap and not under warranty at the time. I've also had the opposite case with a 50/2 planar. Its focus ring was too tight and required adjustment.
Wobble is the movement you get if you grip the front ring and it moves back and forth on axis, not circularly around the lens' axis.
It is a shame that Zeiss doesn't recognize these problems and offer a program to fix them, at nominal or no cost. My re-lube and adjust was $175 per lens and took months.
mathomas
Well-known
I had just a touch of wobble/play on my 50mm planar (silver). I took a beating on the price when I sold it even though it was very minor.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Mike, it may be my limited way of viewing things, but I think that used ZM prices generally reflect a significant discount off new prices for this risk, as your specific experience indicates.
"Unacceptable" is the right word for Zeiss' lack of response.
"Unacceptable" is the right word for Zeiss' lack of response.
mathomas
Well-known
Unfortunately, I bought my Planar used and still lost when I sold it. It had the wobble already when I bought it (the seller didn't mention it), but I considered it very minor, and didn't really give it a second thought. However, over time I read so much about it that by the time I put it up for sale, I felt I had to be honest about the wobble. I even took video of it and tried to depict how minor it was (it certainly didn't affect photos, either). I got almost no interest until I dropped my price considerably.
Ironically, when my buyer received it, he said the wobble didn't bother him at all but I'd (honestly) missed a tiny scratch on the barrel in my description (but he wasn't upset about that, either). He got a good deal!
I always combine shipping and PayPal into my price. Combine his good deal and the incredible rip-off price that my local UPS store charged for shipping (my lovely wife took it in for me), and I lost big-time. Oh well. I think these things even out over time.
Now, Zeiss' refusal to take care of their customers on the wobble issue is another matter altogether!