kshapero
South Florida Man
Besides the Leica mystique can anyone tell me the difference betwwen the two? What am I giving up or gaining by purchasing a Zeiss ZM?
Zeiss ZM vs Leica M7
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ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
You will gain film loading convenience by getting the Zeiss Ikon.
Olsen
Well-known
The Zeiss Ikon has slightly brighter viewfinder, is lighter, has as standard 'black laquer' finnish, simpler film loading and a finish all over which looks ordinary and 'fair enough' and a shutter which is good for double the number of exposures.
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But the M7 'feels like heavy quality'. Like a Rolex watch. Everybody who hold it say; 'wow!'.
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But the M7 'feels like heavy quality'. Like a Rolex watch. Everybody who hold it say; 'wow!'.
ljsegil
Well-known
Zi
Zi
Much better, brighter, larger viewfinder/rangefinder in the ZI with 28mm framelines easily visible. Lighter, without sacrificing quality that I can discern (I had an M7 and sold it several months after getting my ZI). Can use all the same lenses and finders as the M7, so if you lust after Leica glass you are not giving up anything.
Best of luck with your decision,
LJS
Zi
Much better, brighter, larger viewfinder/rangefinder in the ZI with 28mm framelines easily visible. Lighter, without sacrificing quality that I can discern (I had an M7 and sold it several months after getting my ZI). Can use all the same lenses and finders as the M7, so if you lust after Leica glass you are not giving up anything.
Best of luck with your decision,
LJS
mfogiel
Veteran
I think the most important differences are:
1- ZI has a better, clearer and bigger viewfinder (but it only comes in 0.74 mag)
2- the price:you can get 3 ZI cameras for a price of 1 new M7, or two ZI for a good condition second hand M7, this means, you can get a ZI, 25 Biogon, 35 Biogon, 50 Planar for a new M7, in case it matters to you
3- the status and owning satisfaction: since M7 is not only 3 times as expensive but also superbly made, it not only is a camera, it is also a piece of (man's) jewellery, like a handmade swiss watch 🙂
1- ZI has a better, clearer and bigger viewfinder (but it only comes in 0.74 mag)
2- the price:you can get 3 ZI cameras for a price of 1 new M7, or two ZI for a good condition second hand M7, this means, you can get a ZI, 25 Biogon, 35 Biogon, 50 Planar for a new M7, in case it matters to you
3- the status and owning satisfaction: since M7 is not only 3 times as expensive but also superbly made, it not only is a camera, it is also a piece of (man's) jewellery, like a handmade swiss watch 🙂
peter_n
Veteran
I use Leica M7s. The VF is definitely better in the ZI but the M7 comes in three VF magnifications. I find it as quick to load film into the M as into a conventional back opening camera (I have used Leicas for 4 years). If your batteries fail and you don't have replacements, the M7 has mechanical 1/60 and 1/125 speeds to tide you over. The M7 is heavier than the ZI and at least in my experience is a very reliable camera. The long-term reliability of the ZI is obviously as yet unknown.
telenous
Well-known
The M7 has two back-up speeds in case the battery dies, 1/60s and 1/125s, (I see Peter mentioned that already). Flash Sync speed for the ZI is 1/125s (non-TTL) and the usual meagre 1/50s for TTL flash with the M7. But the M7 can High Sync Speed (non-TTL, non-Auto) at all shutter speeds with a particular Metz flash. On the other hand the ZI has a bright viewfinder with longer effective baselength. And it's a lot cheaper (in price).
There are other differences e.g. shutter noise, viewfinder display, film loading, and perhaps most contentiously of all quality of construction but they seem to involve a degree of subjective evaluation. (In other words, you are the judge).
PS. I 've read here in RFF and elsewhere, the two cameras expose slightly differently on AE. I don't know if it is true, it's certainly worth investigating if interested in either of them.
There are other differences e.g. shutter noise, viewfinder display, film loading, and perhaps most contentiously of all quality of construction but they seem to involve a degree of subjective evaluation. (In other words, you are the judge).
PS. I 've read here in RFF and elsewhere, the two cameras expose slightly differently on AE. I don't know if it is true, it's certainly worth investigating if interested in either of them.
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Roma
Well-known
I was very close to buying a ZI from Tony, but they were out of them for over a month (that was about 3-4 months ago). In the mean time, I won an M7 on eBay in almost mint condition for just under $1800 with .72 finder and that just has been serviced.
I love using it! When I used my Bessa R3A in quiet rooms, people turned their heads and knew that it was a camera snap. Now, they raise their eye brows not knowing exactly what they heard, ignore the sound and keep doing what they were doing.
Sorry, can't really say anything about the ZI.
I love using it! When I used my Bessa R3A in quiet rooms, people turned their heads and knew that it was a camera snap. Now, they raise their eye brows not knowing exactly what they heard, ignore the sound and keep doing what they were doing.
Sorry, can't really say anything about the ZI.
aizan
Veteran
if it were between a .58x m7 and a zi, i'd go for the m7 to see the 28mm framelines better. replace the m7 with a .72x or .85x and i'd go for the zi for the better controls and swinging back.
kinok1
Established
I myself have been asking a very similar question. I have an m6 that i shoot with daily. When it started acting up (damn exposure lights wouldnt turn off) i switched to my r2a (my first foray into rangefinders). After a few rolls, i decided it wasnt for me. Mostly due to the irregular spacing between shots on the roll. Not so good if you scan your negs, as i do. I'd love AE, so i thought, hey, i'll look into used m7s.
At a local camera store yesterday i played with the ZI for almost an hour. Tried to get an overall feel for the camera. I also played with an m7. Long story short, im going for a ZI in black with the 35 biogon. its a beautiful camera, all metal, just not as heavy, since its missing that big brass plate at the top. I'm willing to forgive some of the diffrences in weight, percieved quality etc, becuase at the price popflash has them at, its a steal. In my opinion.
Is the ZI a better made camera than the r2a? No question. Is it not as reliable, well built, etc than my m6? Not 100 percent sure. Is it lighter? Yes. Are the Zeiss lenses fantastic? Did you ever see some 6x6 chromes from a hassy??? Will i get rid of the r2a? Probably not. After selling my mamiya 6 years ago, i learned my lesson.
Let us know what you decide.
At a local camera store yesterday i played with the ZI for almost an hour. Tried to get an overall feel for the camera. I also played with an m7. Long story short, im going for a ZI in black with the 35 biogon. its a beautiful camera, all metal, just not as heavy, since its missing that big brass plate at the top. I'm willing to forgive some of the diffrences in weight, percieved quality etc, becuase at the price popflash has them at, its a steal. In my opinion.
Is the ZI a better made camera than the r2a? No question. Is it not as reliable, well built, etc than my m6? Not 100 percent sure. Is it lighter? Yes. Are the Zeiss lenses fantastic? Did you ever see some 6x6 chromes from a hassy??? Will i get rid of the r2a? Probably not. After selling my mamiya 6 years ago, i learned my lesson.
Let us know what you decide.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I will re-equip sometime this year and it's no question it will be Zeiss Ikons with Zeiss lenses.
retow
Well-known
Get the best of both worlds and buy a used M6 (classic or TTL) and a ZI. The latter one to have the comfort of AE, better VF and a higher shutter speed (!) and the former one to enjoy the unique Leica feal and handling its ability to fully function (except for the meter) even without batteries.
Easily possible for the price of an M7 and you would still have money left for a nice lens.
Easily possible for the price of an M7 and you would still have money left for a nice lens.
back alley
IMAGES
i have the perfect pair (for me) with the zeiss ikon and the r4m.
the zi is one of the nicest cameras i have ever used and i have used many.
the r4m is a treat, needs batteries for the meter only and is 'forcing' me to concentrate on the wides and i'm lovin' it.
i had 2 zi bodies, sold one and bought the r4m with a bunch of cv lenses and it feels better than having the 2 zi bods. more well rounded.
just my most humble thoughts...
the zi is one of the nicest cameras i have ever used and i have used many.
the r4m is a treat, needs batteries for the meter only and is 'forcing' me to concentrate on the wides and i'm lovin' it.
i had 2 zi bodies, sold one and bought the r4m with a bunch of cv lenses and it feels better than having the 2 zi bods. more well rounded.
just my most humble thoughts...
sepiareverb
genius and moron
retow has a pretty good idea there. I never work without a second body, and the fully manual cameras are certainly in their element at times.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Thanks for all the comments. leaning towards a ZI.
foto_fool
Well-known
Counted rolls shot recently - ZI two-to-one over the M6. No desire to buy or bid on an M7. No problems to date with the ZI - very happy with that purchase. Go for it Akiva - I doubt you will be disappointed.
- John
- John
jarski
Veteran
ZI seems to be trendy right now.. those who would choose M7 or MP over ZI are rare.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Just pulled the trigger on a ZI silver demo and 50mm sonnar 1.5 at Popflash!!
sgy1962
Well-known
If you want the AE, the ZI is an attractive option, especially with that viewfinder. Me, I got into Leicas to get away from the eletronics, so it's not an option.
And if f/2 is fast enough, I would also go with the zeiss lenses.
And if f/2 is fast enough, I would also go with the zeiss lenses.
sgy1962
Well-known
jarski said:
You really can't compare and MP to a ZI, because that's apples and oranges. Most folks who go for an MP don't want the electronics, and therefore, neither the ZI or M7 is an option.
Of course, I got most of my stuff 5-6 years ago when the prices on Leica (for whatever reason) was a lot more reasonable. If I was to do it today, I would have to consider ZI outfit, even given my aversion to electronics, given the cost of new Leica. In fact, I don't think I could afford new Leica these days.
But still its apples and oranges.
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