ZI finder eye relief

[picker77]

I've been agonizing over which M mount RF to buy, and I've almost got myself talked into a Zeiss Ikon purchase--even though I probably won't be able to afford to buy a matching Zeiss lens for it yet and will have to stick with Voigtlander and Russian glass for a while.

I wear glasses. So as one of the final decision points in this exercise, I'd like to ask glasses-wearing ZI owners: What is the viewfinder eye relief like with your glasses on? I refuse to use dipoters which require me to remove my glasses every time I want to shoot, and I haven't been able to find anything much out about the ZI's eye relief. Can you see the entire VF image while wearing eyeglasses?

Thanks!
Jerry

 

[kshapero]

I wear glasses and I can see easily all the framelines.

 

[Papercut]

It will depend on how close to your face your glasses rest, I imagine. Wearing my glasses I have no trouble with any of the framelines, except the 28mm, for that either the left or the right side will not be visible for me.

EDIT: I just checked it again, and it's actually worse than that: if I keep the RF patch brightened (i.e., my eye centered in the VF), then neither of the sides of the 28mm lines are visible. To compound things, if I slide my eye to see either of the side lines, the patch fades out at the same time as my eye is de-centered in the VF. (The ZI's focusing patch is rather sensitive to eye placement ime.) This isn't an issue for me as I never use a 28mm lens.

 

[Joerg]

Hi,

the ZI works great with glasses, except the 28mm lines. It took me the longest time to even discover them. Nevertheless I use a 28mm lens regularly with great (for me) success.

Ciao

joerg

 

[Jason Sprenger]

I can see most of the viewfinder with my glasses on, the 28mm frame-lines are kind of tough, but the 35mm lines are no problem at all. And the 50mm lines are floating in space like they're supposed to.

Whereas, on a Leica M2, I do not normally see the 35mm lines when I'm wearing specs.

 

[sojournerphoto]

As above - I cannot see the 28mm framelines complete wearing glasses. Having said that, it's a great viewfinder for a 35mm lens. I think that if your glasses sit close to your face then you will probably be OK with the 28s as well.

Don't let this put you off - anyting else with similar magnification will be the same, or likely worse.

Mike

 

[mfogiel]

I wear the thin type of carbon glasses, and pressing against the VF I can easily see the 28mm frames, even though there is not much relief space around. Having said that, ZI is really a 35mm frame camera, with the 50mm frames being still big and comfortable. The real point though, is that there is nothing better in 35mm for a glass wearer, so your choice is obvious.

 

[peripatetic]

I wear glasses, and usually they are not terribly high on my nose.

50 frame lines are best, 35 okay, but I do use a 28 and although they are not very easy to see, after a few minutes you don't really notice.

The viewfinder is MUCH better than the Leica M8 I tried in the store though if you wear eyeglasses.

I suppose a lower magnification viewfinder on a Bessa or Leica though would achieve the same effect.

 

[Paddy C]

I'll report the same findings — I can only make out some of the 28 lines. I doubt it would be a problem if you shoot with a 28 as you could estimate well using the entire viewfinder. When you go wide you can always buy an external viewfinder (which is what I intend to do).

 

[mfogiel]

The fact is, that the ZI viewfinder is not only the easiest one to see through, but it is also BIG, i.e. while it covers more or less the same area in terms of frames spacing as the Leica 0.58x, but the vision is simply broader. I have both of these, so it is easy to observe.

 

[presspass]

I wear glasses and that's a problem with my Z1. The frames are not an issue - I'm used to not being able to see the widest frames. The problem I have is with the shutter speeds on the right side of the finder - I can't see them at all well. It's a problem when it's on auto and a major issue when I'm on manual meter mode.

 

[Johnny_Johnson]

Looks like I must be the exception to the rule. I can see the top and bottom of the 35mm frame lines but I have to move my eye side to side to see the sides. That was a major disapointment for me after reading comments like the previous ones while researching the purchase.

Later,
Johnny

 

[akiralx]

I wear glasses and like most I tend to shoot 35mm or longer with the ZI, but can use the 28mm lines. But 35mm is really great.

One thing I will say is that owing to its size the ZI finder for glasses wearers is clearly superior to the M8 and M3 which I also have.

I use a Leica diopter with the M3 as the metal eyepiece would otherwise scratch the glasses, and while it's a slight pain this does give a very good view and makes focusing a 90mm lens pretty easy.

If you're going to go wide often consider a Bessa R4A or R4M, which I had - nice to use but not built as well as the Zeiss.

 

[yzblog]

like many others said above the 28 is on the edge with glasses on for me as well

but i bought a diopter glass (-3 for me) to be able use the zi without glasses
and then i realized that i can comfortably use it even with glasses on surprisingly

so when i don't have time to remove my glasses, i just look through both things and see the world slightly sharper but comfortably

 

[akiralx]

like many others said above the 28 is on the edge with glasses on for me as well

but i bought a diopter glass (-3 for me) to be able use the zi without glasses
and then i realized that i can comfortably use it even with glasses on surprisingly

so when i don't have time to remove my glasses, i just look through both things and see the world slightly sharper but comfortably

Yes, I've done this with my -3.0 diopter on the M8 - it is usable at a pinch as you say, though it is a bit like looking the wrong way through a telescope.

 

[picker77]

Thanks to all RFF'ers for the kind advice and info. I did end up buying a Zeiss Ikon (a used "10-" from Classic Connections in silver), and got a good price on a very nice silver VC 35/1.7 Ultron to match it. I have several nice Russian 50's to play with, so I can live without a 50mm for the time being. I first want to see how 35mm works for me as an all-around lens, since up 'till now I've always used 50's on 35mm rangefinders. Also, I want to play around with my Russian lenses some before buying more lenses. If one of them makes me happy on this camera I'll look into a VC 21/4 or maybe even 15/4.5 instead of a high dollar 50.

I'm not a big fan of Leica lenses, primarily because (to me) of their badly skewed price/value ratio, although I realize the more modern Leicas are certainly good lenses. But there's too much emotion, name-brand pride, and owner ego built into Leica's pricing structure for me, so I'll mostly likely stick with VC and Zeiss. Besides, I don't try to print 20x30's or 16x20's from 35mm negatives, and I wonder a little about those who do. I have MF and LF gear for prints that size, including a sweet RF645 that's very easy to carry and a joy to use. But for 35mm, clean, sharp 11x14's or even 8x10's are just fine for my use.

Can anyone tell me how the ZI's 25 framelines work with a VC 21/4? I ask because I really dislike cluttering things up with external finders. How about 85 framelines with a VC 75?

 

[Papercut]

First, congrats on a great purchase. The ZI is a wonderful camera; you're sure to enjoy it!

Second, I have the CV 21/4 and I wouldn't want to use it with the regular ZI vf -- the difference in coverage is well beyond my "guesstimate coverage" comfort zone. YMMV, however. I've found that an external is acceptable with a lens that wide: you really don't need to focus it much, if ever, because the DoF is so immense. Pretty much the only time you'll need to look through the ZI's vf will be to check the shutterspeed if you're in marginal lighting conditions. Using the external VF is really not that bad, ime.

EDIT: haven't used a 75 with mine (only a 90), so can't speak to that question. Sorry 🙂

Can anyone tell me how the ZI's 25 framelines work with a VC 21/4? I ask because I really dislike cluttering things up with external finders. How about 85 framelines with a VC 75?

 

[picker77]

The ZI is here!!

The ZI is here!!

I see that I mentioned a 25 frameline in my previous post, sorry, I meant 28.

The ZI arrived right on time today, and I am certainly duly impressed at first look. The build quality seems outstanding, with a definite look and feel of precision and smoothness. The weight (lighter than I expected for all that metal) is going to be very comfortable to carry around. As stated by just about everyone on the forum, the VF on this camera is wonderful--huge, clear, and bright, with a relatively large brilliant and very sharply defined focusing patch. Framelines are clean and distinct, much more usable to my eye than other RF's I've seen. As I expected, I can barely see the 28 framelines with my glasses on, but you can't have everything, I guess. The 35 framelines are fine with glasses, although for me there's not a lot of real estate left over around the edges. After looking at the 50mm framelines I can't wait to try a 50mm on it, I love all that space around the frame. But I'll start out with my silver CV 35/1.7, which almost seems to have been custom made for this camera in both looks and function. I was very interested in shutter sound levels because I'd like to use this for a street camera, and although this camera is very quiet for an all metal shutter rig, I'd guess it's still probably louder than a well-tuned Leica M. FAR quieter than any of my SLR's, though. I've been spoiled where shutter sound is concerned by my little Voigtlander Vitomatic II, whose tiny leaf shutter is literally just a faint whisper. I'll get a chance to do a side by side comparison with a Leica M later this week if the M2 I've bought shows up on time. I like the ZI's bright red shutter speed display, which, although very bright--as others have mentioned--is far enough offset to the left to be instantly available but not intrusive to my eye. I especially like the AE Lock button's tactile feel and location, Zeiss got that just right. All in all, this appears to be a very well designed and nicely built little machine.

I have a bunch of BW400CN in the fridge to shoot up so I'll load up a roll of that tomorrow and blow through quickly it so I can verify as much as possible the focusing accuracy (I have a 7-day no-questions-asked return time frame on this camera). I don't know if it's the CV 35/1.7 lens or the camera, but focusing the ZI seems quicker and far more "natural" to to me than any RF I've ever handled. This is going to be a keeper, I think. Thanks, Zeiss!!

 

[akiralx]

Yes, it's a brilliant camera to use isn't it, especially for glasses wearers. Congratulations on your purchase, sure you'll enjoy it.

 

[goo0h]

Congrats!

Wow. Ya know, it just occurred to me that I forgot I'm wearing eye glasses with this camera. It has been such a NONissue. 🙂