tamerlin
Registered Newbie
Paul T. said:
No. I wouldn't worry about that. If it's a good camera, it will most likely sell pretty well... and I have
high expectations for any Zeiss product.
It's just a sign of people insecure in their preferences, and unable to find an intelligent way to
justify their purchases. So they claim that the other product is inferior to satisfy their weak egos.
They're rarely people who are actually out trying to USE these products, and in reality, they're
irrelevant -- as long as we keep them off of here.
Though I've become a Leica fan, I am interested in the Ikon, because there is a possibility that I
might one day get one as a second body though it's more likely that I would choose to wait until the
digital version shows up, and in the interim some of those lenses look pretty tempting to go with
my Leica m7
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Dan States
Established
Maybe by "thermal stability" they mean it wont melt if you leave it on the dash of your car in the summer! HAR!! HAR!!
Dan
Dan
sgy1962
Well-known
I suspect there will be many Leica owners who pick up a Zeiss Ikon, because it is a more affordable alternative to the M7 (which goes up to $3300 US as of July 1); or because of the greater eye relief. Once the camera body is out, I believe folks will be more apt to give the lenses a try. I really believe that rangefinder folks -- Leica or otherwise -- are going to be somewhat surprised at how well this camera is accepted, given its anticipated build quality and price. Of course, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, because, as we say here, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see.
I expect build quality will be an important issue in its acceptance. The specs look great.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'd take the opposite viewpoint from SGY1962 -- the lenses are what matters, not the bodies. To be cynical, making only lenses and no bodies says "Me too!" but selling a body to go with the lenses says "I am serious."
After all, there are lots of bodies already in circulation which might perform better with Zeiss lenses, but there are no lenses that are going to perform better with Zeiss bodies (well, all right, except ultra-fast lenses that you can't easily focus with an effective 28mm rangefinder base.
Cheers,
Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)
After all, there are lots of bodies already in circulation which might perform better with Zeiss lenses, but there are no lenses that are going to perform better with Zeiss bodies (well, all right, except ultra-fast lenses that you can't easily focus with an effective 28mm rangefinder base.
Cheers,
Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)
aizan
Veteran
the zeiss ikon is upping the ante with the high eye relief viewfinder and longer base length. it could make the .58x leica obsolete, while making it easier to focus demanding lenses without being near life-size. they could also come out with a magnifying eyepiece!
sgy1962
Well-known
Roger -- If I understand your post correctly, I agree w/ you 100%. Lenses are more important then bodies, and that is where the money should be invested.
But in practical terms, I believe once the boby is available, then lens sales will pick up, because for many consumers once they purchase a new body they will be more inclined to purchase new lenses to go w/ that body.
It would also help for some reviews to come out on these lenses.
What really exciytes me about the Zeiss Ikon is the high eye relief view finder.
But in practical terms, I believe once the boby is available, then lens sales will pick up, because for many consumers once they purchase a new body they will be more inclined to purchase new lenses to go w/ that body.
It would also help for some reviews to come out on these lenses.
What really exciytes me about the Zeiss Ikon is the high eye relief view finder.
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
Re: the original question
.......no these "attacks" won't kill off the ZI, it's the Canon vs. Nikon, Chevy vs. Ford, Skoal vs. Coppenhagen...err, eh?.... brand loyalty debate all over again. I hope the Ziess lenses have thier own "signature" look to them, that would interest me.
Todd
Paul T. said:
.......no these "attacks" won't kill off the ZI, it's the Canon vs. Nikon, Chevy vs. Ford, Skoal vs. Coppenhagen...err, eh?.... brand loyalty debate all over again. I hope the Ziess lenses have thier own "signature" look to them, that would interest me.
Todd
egpj
50 Summilux is da DEVIL!
The ZI film body really does not interest me. I'll probably go in and pick one up out of curiosity though. I heard that it was made out of aluminum and the shutter is made out of carbon fiber. That was on the Leica forum I believe. As a matter of fact the Leica forum is abuzz with talk about this new camera and not in a bad way but highly expecting it as another option. Especially a digital option. I have to admit that if ZI comes out with a full frame digital body that I would be one of the first to throw down the money for that. Right now I have the GAS for another MP body with Leicavit.
David Kieltyka
Clicking away feverishly
Todd.Hanz said:
From what I've seen (I own the 50mm and have used the 35mm) they do have a distinctive look. They share the color rendition and contrast of the G series lenses along with very smooth out-of-focus character. I really like the 50mm.
IMO it's great that there are so many different styles of lenses, and from so many different eras, available in M mount. I wish people would get over the silly desire to nail down a "best" lens in a given focal length and start enjoying all the variety. There are multiple "bests" depending on your tastes and needs.
-Dave-
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
David Kieltyka said:
IMO this is one of the greatest things about being an RF shooter. If my favorite 50mm lens at the moment is the Carl Zeiss, or the Summicron, or the Nokton, or a circa-1961 Canon, or a circa-1936 Elmar, or a Jupiter-8 of uncertain age... well, I can take that lens and stick it (possibly with the aid of a simple adapter) on my brand-spanking-new Zeiss-Ikon or Leica or Cosina or Epson body and shoot happily away. And if I'm a Leica owner and decide that the new Z-I camera looks pretty appealing... or if I want a Bessa as a lower-cost second body... I can just pick one up and use it with the lenses I already own.
(I probably won't need to read a 500-page instruction book to find out where the mode selector is, either.)
This easy intermarriage does tend to make for fairly intensive "which is best?" arguments -- but that's precisely BECAUSE we can compare so easily.
The Canon-vs.-Nikon arguments among SLR users are fairly intense, but you know they'd all give their eyeteeth to be able to stick a Nikkor lens on their EOS (or vice-versa) and see for themselves whether or not they really like it.
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
sychan said:
Leicaphiles is a too friendly word iHMO, they pretend to love the product, but they just abuse the image for their poor purposes.
We should never forget: Snob once meant "Sine (without) Nobilitate (nobility)". and tho it is used in slightly different meaning nowadays it still means parvenus making their status with goods or things they use as a symbolic substitute for everything they miss but can't buy for money.
P.net is sometimes looking like a lab where you can watch them dancing around with their pants down. That's all quite funny and entertaining as long as it is far away from here. I'd hate to see our party spoiled by some of those.
Regards,
Bertram
bobofish
Two-fisted Atom Smasher
I think having a variety of quality manufacturers represented in the same lens mount is a tremendous advantage, and one that many people do not understand or appreciate.
Some people enjoy using black and white, some color, and then of course there's the millions of possible permutations of exposure, film and developing that allows people to be truly creative...sometimes a painter will use red, sometimes blue, but only a fool would argue that one color is better than the other.
In almost any other camera system, with the generous exception of large format, photographers are hobbled in the choices they can make by lenses dedicated to a particular camera..if they want a different look, then they have to buy an entirely new system.
I would love it if all the manufacturers of SLR cameras would standardize their lens mounts to allow easy interchange of all the different lenses...It will never happen, but it'd be lovely.
Imagine being able to use your favorite body with your favorite lenses for a particular task....a canon Eos 1V with a Nikkor Wide...or an F5 with Olympus lenses....lovely.
Sharpness is greatly overrated in lens design, many of the most widely acclaimed lenses in the world are not the sharpest, but they perform admirably in out of focus rendition, color cast, contrast, etc.
Some people also make arguments that a particular (often Leica) lens is "the sharpest lens ever...)
This is not only a silly argument to make, but also factually wrong....according to many tests, Canon has had several of the sharpest lenses in the 35 mm world for many years now....unless things have changed, their 200 mm f1.8 was recently proven to be the sharpest 35 mm lens ever.
And don't forget that the sharpest lenses in the world have nothing to do with 35 mm photography....
Some people enjoy using black and white, some color, and then of course there's the millions of possible permutations of exposure, film and developing that allows people to be truly creative...sometimes a painter will use red, sometimes blue, but only a fool would argue that one color is better than the other.
In almost any other camera system, with the generous exception of large format, photographers are hobbled in the choices they can make by lenses dedicated to a particular camera..if they want a different look, then they have to buy an entirely new system.
I would love it if all the manufacturers of SLR cameras would standardize their lens mounts to allow easy interchange of all the different lenses...It will never happen, but it'd be lovely.
Imagine being able to use your favorite body with your favorite lenses for a particular task....a canon Eos 1V with a Nikkor Wide...or an F5 with Olympus lenses....lovely.
Sharpness is greatly overrated in lens design, many of the most widely acclaimed lenses in the world are not the sharpest, but they perform admirably in out of focus rendition, color cast, contrast, etc.
Some people also make arguments that a particular (often Leica) lens is "the sharpest lens ever...)
This is not only a silly argument to make, but also factually wrong....according to many tests, Canon has had several of the sharpest lenses in the 35 mm world for many years now....unless things have changed, their 200 mm f1.8 was recently proven to be the sharpest 35 mm lens ever.
And don't forget that the sharpest lenses in the world have nothing to do with 35 mm photography....
F
Frank Granovski
Guest
Paul T. wrote:
The answers:
(1) No, these attacks won't kill off the Z1.
(2) Yes, it is a sign from the Leica heads running scared.
(3) Leica heads start these rumours.
The answers:
(1) No, these attacks won't kill off the Z1.
(2) Yes, it is a sign from the Leica heads running scared.
(3) Leica heads start these rumours.
existrandom
Established
after much thoughts i bought a user M4 some months ago; i like it very much; it is real craftmanship, a piece of history in the digital gadget mobile-phone-camera age... and it could be relied on for its no fuss interface...
but from what i ve read about the Zeiss Ikon for OVER A YEAR, i think i better start save up for a black one when it is out; on the following account in terms of my use preference:
1) it is a NEW camera, not a 60 yrs old! (translation: i won't need to expect it to die soon; parts are much more easily avaliable... plus: when was the last time anyone of use bought a NEW camera?)
2) the reported eye relief for use of 28 & 35mm lens (translation: i am going to buy the ZM25 and many other wide angles?)
3) the reported HUGE viewfinder vision of feild (translation: you can actually see it is HUGE, right?)
4) the longish effect base length (translation: my eyesight would only get worse, not better, right? and i am sticking to 0.7ish for its being versatile with more lens choice)
these would make the ZI a very very good camera for REAL world use
and the leica? for my nostalgic, feel like being "contemplative-yet-also-cool" days
cheers
lee
but from what i ve read about the Zeiss Ikon for OVER A YEAR, i think i better start save up for a black one when it is out; on the following account in terms of my use preference:
1) it is a NEW camera, not a 60 yrs old! (translation: i won't need to expect it to die soon; parts are much more easily avaliable... plus: when was the last time anyone of use bought a NEW camera?)
2) the reported eye relief for use of 28 & 35mm lens (translation: i am going to buy the ZM25 and many other wide angles?)
3) the reported HUGE viewfinder vision of feild (translation: you can actually see it is HUGE, right?)
4) the longish effect base length (translation: my eyesight would only get worse, not better, right? and i am sticking to 0.7ish for its being versatile with more lens choice)
these would make the ZI a very very good camera for REAL world use
and the leica? for my nostalgic, feel like being "contemplative-yet-also-cool" days
cheers
lee
mhoutman
Newbie
my first posting
my first posting
Hello, this is my first posting. A have a Leica M7 but was allways very much interested in Zeiss Ikon as I strongly believe that they (have) build wonderfull camera's. Now with the new ZM it is yet another opportunity !!
At the ZI forum you would expect a lot of nonsense about Leica, and frankly speaking I read on the Leica Forums so much nonsense about ZI too. A pity and a missed chance to talk about the real thing: two brands dealing with both great rangefinder products in a digital era.
In stead of talking nonsense I feel we should cooperate and exchange our thoughts in a more positive manner. May I all welcome and invite you at the Leica forums.
http://www.leica-camera.com/cgi-bin/discus_e/discus.pl?pg=topics
(english language)
or
http://www.leica-camera.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.pl?pg=topics
(german language)
for all now, happy shooting and enjoy your ZI .
Michiel
my first posting
Hello, this is my first posting. A have a Leica M7 but was allways very much interested in Zeiss Ikon as I strongly believe that they (have) build wonderfull camera's. Now with the new ZM it is yet another opportunity !!
At the ZI forum you would expect a lot of nonsense about Leica, and frankly speaking I read on the Leica Forums so much nonsense about ZI too. A pity and a missed chance to talk about the real thing: two brands dealing with both great rangefinder products in a digital era.
In stead of talking nonsense I feel we should cooperate and exchange our thoughts in a more positive manner. May I all welcome and invite you at the Leica forums.
http://www.leica-camera.com/cgi-bin/discus_e/discus.pl?pg=topics
(english language)
or
http://www.leica-camera.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.pl?pg=topics
(german language)
for all now, happy shooting and enjoy your ZI .
Michiel
F
Frank Granovski
Guest
I can't get into the threads. :bang:
mhoutman
Newbie
Frank Granovski said:
if you mean the Leica forum threads you can view them asa "guest" contribution is as registeree only; good luck !
F
Frank Granovski
Guest
I signed up there about a year or so ago, but I can't log in.
F
Frank Granovski
Guest
Oh, that worked; but it just brings me to the main forums page. I thought that link was for a thread about "When Leica fans attack."