ZM disappeared from Cameraquest

[Huck Finn]

The simple solution is to e-mail Stephen and ask him like I did! He may not tell you any more than he did me, and I'm CERTAINLY not at the top of his list of confidants! If he chooses to enlighten any of us further, so be it! If not, well, we can all speculate until you-know-what freezes over. Whatever is or has happened between Stephen and Cosina and/or Zeiss (IF ANYTHING!) is his business and I believe he'll tell us more if he wants; right?

I will not e-mail Stephen. He certainly knows that he can post here if he wants to clarify this matter & I wish he would. I don't really have a need or a burning desire to know the answer. I only offer my comments as part of the general discussion because people here seemed to be taking the comment from Stephen at face value. I'm simply offering the opinion that there may be more to this than what appears on the surface. Tony Rose's post adds to my belief that this is so.

Stephen Gandy certainly doesn't owe anyone an explanation. His reasons for his business decisions are his own. However, when any business eliminates a highly regarded product line without explanation, this will raise questions among the customer base & they are likely to specualte . When an inadequate explanation is offered, this will only confound the customers even further.

 

[RML]

However, In real world handheld usage I seriously doubt that I would ever be able to tell the difference between the various lenses.

After using the Planar T* 50/2 I won I can tell you you'll immediately see the difference between say a J8 and the Planar. Whether you can see the difference between the various Leica 50mm offerings, I don't know but I do see a difference between the Planar and the Minolta M-Rokkor 40/2.

 

[Socke]

Zeiss would have been better served to implement the new purchasing/ordering arrangements prior to the announcement. I.e., get US pricing and shipping set up to avoid a de facto price increase.

US pricing is risky when you don't produce in US$ countries.
You can play the save side and calculate $1.50 per Euro and don't sell much or you hope that the US$ doesn't fall further than $1.20 per Euro and pay the difference out of whatever you have.

A Leica M is 3,645 Euro at todays $1.26 per Euro, a ZI 1,578!

Want cheaper imports? Raise the value of the US$ 🙂

 

[RJBender]

Geez, the ZI prices are in euros, factor in the conversion rate, the customs/import fees .... they really have gone off the deep end if they think this will INCREASE sales !

Don't forget what they said on their website last year.

"Well – the new Zeiss Ikon camera should come with a body that, first of all, enables positive grip with European size male hands. This, to us, is a very important requirement, something which seems to be much less important to many makers of consumer digital cameras and cell phones."

http://www.zeissikon.com/making3.htm

R.J.

 

[RJBender]

Did you guys read the press releases?

2006-06-01: Mechanical improvements postpone market introduction of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens

Extensive prototype testing of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens for the Zeiss Ikon camera has suggested improvements towards long term ruggedness of this first internal focusing tele lens for a rangefinder camera. After several attempts with modifications which could have been applied relatively short term and did not fully deliver the intended results, we have now decided for a major redesign. This redesign will significantly increase the durability and long term precision of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM lens. It will, however, also delay the first shipments. We will inform about the availability of the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM as soon as we can.

2006-06-01: Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM - Series production on halt due to sudden shortage of useable parts

Series production of the Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM lens for the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera had to be halted after a complete lot of parts had unexpectedly proven out of specification and therefore unusable. We will do our best to continue production of the Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM and will inform about further availability of this super wide angle lens as soon as possible.

2006-02-13: Shipment information

The Sonnar T* 2/85 ZM is now scheduled for start of deliveries in May 2006.
The delay is caused by the extraordinary measures necessary to take to assure the extremely high precision requirements of the design in terms of both optical and mechanical performance.

http://www.zeissikon.com/news.htm

R.J.

 

[John]

Is Zeiss stumbling at every turn? I am just getting over the Zeiss / Kyocera divorce. I think people would genuinely like to buy Zeiss products and help support them in their own tiny way. Too bad Zeiss insists on shafting them before they get a chance to write the cheque! I'm sorry but most people can not afford and are unwilling to pay suggested list price for anything, cameras, cars, or corn flakes. 😱

 

[Socke]

John, even at list price the ZI is not more expensive than a USED Leica M6.

There's allways the Voigtländer for those who want to buy new for less than the price of a ZI.

I can not afford a Leica at list price, do they care?

 

[aoresteen]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but:

"Zeiss has apparently been "strongly encouraging" non-direct sellers to bail out of the market "

Non-Direct means "local dealers"? This would seem that Zeiss WANTS only DIRECT dealers to sell ZI stuff like Cameraquest & PopFlash?

The question I would ask Zeiss is given that I live in Florida and no one in town carries ZI product (and never will for that matter) I have to order from someone, if they were spening their own money, who would they buy from?

B&H sells the 50mm Plannar for $800 as does Photo Village. Cameraquest & PopFlash sell it for $600. On the Zeiss site I can order it for about $900 (includes shipping & tax & Euro converison).

If Zeiss management really expects us to pay a 50% bump just to be able to buy from them they are sadly mistaken. I doubt if they were spening their own personal money that they would pay the 50% extra just to buy it from Zeiss.

OK so now the greymarket dries up. That means volume is down. Zeiss sells less product. Is that what they want? Zeiss should be PLEASED to have Cameraquest as a dealer. I believe that if Cameraquest hadn't jumped in and sold Cosins Voigtlander stuff early on, that Cosina would not have survived in the the RF market. This allowed Cosina to develope new lenses and cameras over the last 4 years. Zeiss should take note.

 

[troym]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but:


B&H sells the 50mm Plannar for $800 as does Photo Village. Cameraquest & PopFlash sell it for $600. On the Zeiss site I can order it for about $900 (includes shipping & tax & Euro converison).

I think Photo Village advertises the 50 Planar for $600 grey market and $800 US warranty.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

What Tony Oresteen said 🙂

And Socke, the Zeiss Ikon (direct) prices may not be higher than USED Leica M6 prices in Europe, they certainly are ALOT higher than USED Leica M6 prices in the US.

 

[aoresteen]

Tryom,

That might be true but when I asked them on the phone for their price on the 50mm lens last week they said $800 and did not mention a lower price of $600.

 

[sdai]

I agree with Huck on this matter, the "damage" for Zeiss's latest move is minimal to none ... how many years Leica has been putting an astronomical price tag on their products? now is everyone able to afford an USED leica? their business still goes strong.

 

[Huck Finn]

What Tony Oresteen said 🙂

And Socke, the Zeiss Ikon (direct) prices may not be higher than USED Leica M6 prices in Europe, they certainly are ALOT higher than USED Leica M6 prices in the US.

Is that before or after the CLA is factored in?

Come on let's compare apples & apples. A new ZI with AE vs a 20+ year old M6? How about ZI vs M7. Less than half the price & cheaper than a used M7. That's a fair comparison.

 

[Socke]

Is that before or after the CLA is factored in?

Come on let's compare apples & apples. A new ZI with AE vs a 20+ year old M6? How about ZI vs M7. Less than half the price & cheaper than a used M7. That's a fair comparison.

Yes, I compared to a used M6TTL in like new condition with one year waranty, not against a user M2.

 

[back alley]

there are few places anywhere in any country that carry new rf stock.

the days of going in and touching the product are almost gone.

the rf market is niche now and most of us will be buying off the internet if we want something.

do i like that? not really.
it was very nice buying the 90 hex in town and putting it on my camera and playing with it before i bought it. but that's one peice of gear in all the i have.

joe

 

[Solinar]

Probably, the only exception to the above is if city you live in has a Leica dealer.

I would bet dollars to donuts that most employees at corporate owned chains like Ritz or Wolf have never picked up a rangefinder camera.

 

[back alley]

we have a leica dealer in town.
they have one camera and maybe 2 lenses.

they had that hex and sold it to me for less than they paid for it, just to get rid of it.

they had maybe 3 bessa r cameras when they came out. i bought one for about $600 cdn. they still have a 28/1.9 on display.

joe

 

[Sparrow]

I have a dealer about 20 miles away but you have to make an appointment, no showroom and staff, a few years ago I had a choice of six or more proper shops; progress has its good and bad aspects.

 

[Trius]

I think Photo Village advertises the 50 Planar for $600 grey market and $800 US warranty.

So there is a choice. If ZI does not want a choice to be available, then they will be able to judge the results through sales numbers.

 

[Issy]

Any idea if Cameraquest is still able to fulfill their warranties for the ZI/ZF items? No indication on the web page....