fidget
Lemon magnet
Hi,
I'm going to run a full service on my Zorki 1. I don't like the curtains, they look dry and stiff, showing what looks like some cracks in places and loosing some of their backing where they run on the shields. So the curtains are to be changed also. Before I strip it for this, I assume that the curtains which fit the rest of the range of say FEDs (2,3,4 etc) are suitable for the Zorki 1, being the right size? Anyone confirm this?
The curtains I have for this job have the bare metal laths rather than the nice material covered originals, but this maybe doesn't matter.
Dave...
I'm going to run a full service on my Zorki 1. I don't like the curtains, they look dry and stiff, showing what looks like some cracks in places and loosing some of their backing where they run on the shields. So the curtains are to be changed also. Before I strip it for this, I assume that the curtains which fit the rest of the range of say FEDs (2,3,4 etc) are suitable for the Zorki 1, being the right size? Anyone confirm this?
The curtains I have for this job have the bare metal laths rather than the nice material covered originals, but this maybe doesn't matter.
Dave...
wolves3012
Veteran
I'm not actually sure but I think some differences exist. Whether it's enough to matter I don't know. Jay Javier would be the man to give you the answer. The metal crimped laths don't matter. Jay believes that shutters are quieter with sewn or glued laths, something that makes sense in a way.
However, saying that, I really can't say that my examples vary due to it, and I do have several of each. I have, for instance, a Zorki 5 (sewn curtains) that is louder than a Zorki 6 (crimped). Both have been CLAd and are running smoothly too, so that isn't the cause. I have a Zorki 1 (quiet) and a Zorki 2C (louder) that both have sewn curtains. No logic to it!
Good luck anyway - what a fun job.
However, saying that, I really can't say that my examples vary due to it, and I do have several of each. I have, for instance, a Zorki 5 (sewn curtains) that is louder than a Zorki 6 (crimped). Both have been CLAd and are running smoothly too, so that isn't the cause. I have a Zorki 1 (quiet) and a Zorki 2C (louder) that both have sewn curtains. No logic to it!
Good luck anyway - what a fun job.
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
If you plan to change the shutters in your Zorki-1, try to find plain shutter material, rather than the ready-made ones with crimped laths and complete ribbons. If the ribbons are still intact in your Zorki's shutter retain them and rip out the old curtains instead. Your replacement/repair work will be much simplified. No need to find where to glue the ribbons and long curtain on the main drum. Locating where the ends should be on the drum when using 100% new, materials is probably one of the more difficult tasks in shutter repair.
Wolves is right about the crimped vs wrapped laths. They don't seem to make sense in as far as smooth or quiet operation is concerned.
Most of the shutter repair done (when these cameras were in active service) would have involved total replacement. So some FED-1 or Zorki-1 would be found with crimped laths rather than the 'proper' wrap-around types. Many of those I found with such tend to run with more noise and less ease than those with the original wrap-around types.
The crimped laths came with the latter cameras- these had wider shutter channels with different body castings. So in a FED-2 or a Zorki-6, a crimped lath would probably work as well as the traditional wrap-around.
Not all crimped laths are made the same. A couple of Zorki-1 which I serviced last month came with such laths. One camera had a shutter which had to be tensed about 50% more than usual (ie, about 7 turns on the tensioning spring instead of the usual 4) to allow the shutter to function. The other would not allow proper firing at 1/500, regardless of tensioning or any form of shutter cleaning or adjustment. It was only when the crimped laths of these cameras were removed and replaced with wrap-around types that the shutters functioned properly, and with less tensioning.
It is often how much tensioning is done on the shutter springs which determine smoothness or quietness of movement- assuming that the rest of the works is clean and properly oiled.
Some of the crimped laths I've seen are wider and thicker than others. The thinner and narrow ones should work in a Zorki-1. The ready-made shutters also come in different widths- FED shutters, and many of the complete, ready made replacement material- tend to be narrower than about a milimeter or so.
Using a narrower blind than needed in a Zorki-1 can cause light to breach through the sides of the shutter since the material isn't wide enough to cover the film gate and lap with the baffle to form a tighter light-proof breach.
Jay
Wolves is right about the crimped vs wrapped laths. They don't seem to make sense in as far as smooth or quiet operation is concerned.
Most of the shutter repair done (when these cameras were in active service) would have involved total replacement. So some FED-1 or Zorki-1 would be found with crimped laths rather than the 'proper' wrap-around types. Many of those I found with such tend to run with more noise and less ease than those with the original wrap-around types.
The crimped laths came with the latter cameras- these had wider shutter channels with different body castings. So in a FED-2 or a Zorki-6, a crimped lath would probably work as well as the traditional wrap-around.
Not all crimped laths are made the same. A couple of Zorki-1 which I serviced last month came with such laths. One camera had a shutter which had to be tensed about 50% more than usual (ie, about 7 turns on the tensioning spring instead of the usual 4) to allow the shutter to function. The other would not allow proper firing at 1/500, regardless of tensioning or any form of shutter cleaning or adjustment. It was only when the crimped laths of these cameras were removed and replaced with wrap-around types that the shutters functioned properly, and with less tensioning.
It is often how much tensioning is done on the shutter springs which determine smoothness or quietness of movement- assuming that the rest of the works is clean and properly oiled.
Some of the crimped laths I've seen are wider and thicker than others. The thinner and narrow ones should work in a Zorki-1. The ready-made shutters also come in different widths- FED shutters, and many of the complete, ready made replacement material- tend to be narrower than about a milimeter or so.
Using a narrower blind than needed in a Zorki-1 can cause light to breach through the sides of the shutter since the material isn't wide enough to cover the film gate and lap with the baffle to form a tighter light-proof breach.
Jay
Blank288
Established
I can't be as specific as Jay, but I replaced the worn curtains on my Z-1 some time ago for new FSU 'crimped-lath' examples. Indeed the width appeared not exactly the same, IIRC the new curtains were quite a bit smaller than the old ones. Nevertheless I gave it a try and now my Z-1 works great - no light leaks and no extensive tensioning needed.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Hmm, thanks for th extensive reply. Not quite as clear cut as I though then. I will start with a careful stripdown, then look at the extent of whats needed.
Thanks, Dave...
Thanks, Dave...
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Resurrecting this old thread rather than starting a new one.
The curtains on my "desert" Zorki-1c do need replacement, after all. I have the shutter apart and it's clear now that they're stiff and beginning to crack. (I was hoping it was all that sand that made the closing curtain hang up, ah well.)
Anything I buy from Ukraine etc. isn't going to be here before October or even November. I have no patience for that. So, looks like my options are the later FED curtains from Fedka, or ordering a sheet of curtain fabric from Japan.
The FED curtains are cheap and would save time but don't look original and may (or may not, see older posts) lead to more noise and light leak problems.
I think I can do a reasonably clean and precise job of cutting my own, with my wife's help for the sewing part. The laths are still good and I might even keep the ribbons.
Advice, experience, opinions?
The curtains on my "desert" Zorki-1c do need replacement, after all. I have the shutter apart and it's clear now that they're stiff and beginning to crack. (I was hoping it was all that sand that made the closing curtain hang up, ah well.)
Anything I buy from Ukraine etc. isn't going to be here before October or even November. I have no patience for that. So, looks like my options are the later FED curtains from Fedka, or ordering a sheet of curtain fabric from Japan.
The FED curtains are cheap and would save time but don't look original and may (or may not, see older posts) lead to more noise and light leak problems.
I think I can do a reasonably clean and precise job of cutting my own, with my wife's help for the sewing part. The laths are still good and I might even keep the ribbons.
Advice, experience, opinions?
Frontman
Well-known
I have ordered ready-made curtains with ribbons from the Ukraine on a few occasions, and they have never taken more than 10 days to arrive. They are mailed in a regular letter envelope, and generally don't have to go through customs. Unless you are in Italy or Germany, shipping should not take so long.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Thanks, Frontman. I was going by the stated delivery in some auctions I checked. At any rate, Fedka only charges $12.90 plus shipping and is very fast, so he'd get my business even so.
To be more precise, I am wondering about the material offered by ebay seller nobbysparrow. He has both styles (i.e. silk on one or both faces). I understand that it's from current production, one sheet sets me up for six cameras, and it so happens that I need a half-mirror for the IIIf from the same seller, anyway. Downside is that shipping from Japan would also take several weeks.
You know, I think I just answered my own question. Why agonize over $12.90? I'll order the FED curtains and if they should really give me trouble, I'll rip them out again and go with the Japanese material.
To be more precise, I am wondering about the material offered by ebay seller nobbysparrow. He has both styles (i.e. silk on one or both faces). I understand that it's from current production, one sheet sets me up for six cameras, and it so happens that I need a half-mirror for the IIIf from the same seller, anyway. Downside is that shipping from Japan would also take several weeks.
You know, I think I just answered my own question. Why agonize over $12.90? I'll order the FED curtains and if they should really give me trouble, I'll rip them out again and go with the Japanese material.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
I'll cut my own curtains on material bought from Ukraine. According to the seller it comes from the KMZ factory. You can cut it down to the size you want:
http://cgi.ebay.nl/SHUTTER-CURTAIN-CLOTH-36-mm-width-30-cm-long-/140603286661?pt=UK_Replacement_Parts_Film_Camera_Parts&hash=item20bc9be485#ht_1418wt_1140
http://cgi.ebay.nl/SHUTTER-CURTAIN-CLOTH-36-mm-width-30-cm-long-/140603286661?pt=UK_Replacement_Parts_Film_Camera_Parts&hash=item20bc9be485#ht_1418wt_1140
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Yes, I saw the same material being offered on ebay USA. Two problems: I think it's easier to cut a new curtain out of a large sheet, than to slice off 3mm lengthwise from this tape to match the 33mm width of the existing curtains. (Or possibly 1.5mm on each edge, because both factory edges could be damaged after years of storage. Looks wavy and fuzzy in the photo.)
And that's my second issue, I would prefer current production Japanese material over ex-Soviet stuff that could be 30 years old.
And that's my second issue, I would prefer current production Japanese material over ex-Soviet stuff that could be 30 years old.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
By the way, this is my first curtain job. I'm planning to follow the instructions on Jay's FED & Zorki survival site, and at Aki-Asahi.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
would be nice to see some photos taken with the redone shutter!
Be aware that more costy modern made curtain material is not always better than the old. I read postings about people finding pinholes in new material. Until now I had only good experience with the old material, and for sure it is the right thickness which can't always be said from the new material.
wish you best of luck with the shutter curtain job
Frontman
Well-known
Airmail from Japan seldom takes more than 5 business days, and EMS generally takes 3 business days. I wish the USPS was as efficient as Japan Post.
The material I got from the Ukraine was quite similar to the original, though with metal lathes. Here in Japan you can usually find shutter curtain material and ribbon at some of the larger camera shops (like Yodobashi in Shinjuku). It is not especially cheap, but the quality of the materials is high.
I'll be putting new curtains in an old black Leica IIA shortly, working on the FED and Zorki cameras was good practice.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Ah, tanks again. That's good to know about mail from Japan. (Who puts those estimated delivery times into ebay auctions, then? I guess a seller has no control over that?)
So, change of plan. A fresh whole sheet, enough for six cameras, shipped to me for $18, versus a 30cm length of old stock material for $11? Easy decision.
Also, after re-reading Jay's advice above, it sounds like a good idea to keep the old ribbons on my first attempt. That makes the ready-made FED curtains less attractive.
So, change of plan. A fresh whole sheet, enough for six cameras, shipped to me for $18, versus a 30cm length of old stock material for $11? Easy decision.
Also, after re-reading Jay's advice above, it sounds like a good idea to keep the old ribbons on my first attempt. That makes the ready-made FED curtains less attractive.
wolves3012
Veteran
batterytypeah! are you planning on using the Aki Asahi double-cloth material? If so, I can recommend it and there is a ready made tape that (I think) comes with the "kit". Beware that some materials (not the double-cloth Aki though) are somewhat stretchy in one direction and must be cut with that in mind (i.e. in the right direction!). I've re-shuttered 3 FSUs with the Aki material, all perfect.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
No, I'll order from nobbysparrow on ebay (not the same business, I assume), because I also need the RF beamsplitter that they have. This is for another camera. I think they combine shipping and will even throw in a length of ribbon for another buck.
About the stretch: Should I cut so that the stretch is crosswise to the long axis of the curtain?
About the stretch: Should I cut so that the stretch is crosswise to the long axis of the curtain?
wolves3012
Veteran
If there's any stretch, it should go vertically. Simply to eliminate stretching the curtains under tension. I've not re-shuttered with anything other than the Aki Asahi double-cloth, so I can't say if it's a real or theoretical problem - I just remember seeing it mentioned somewhere!
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Thanks, wolves3012! That's what I thought.
B-9
Devin Bro
Has anyone else heard that the red cloth from micro tools is indeed not lightproof?!
Reviving this old thread, has anyone found a suitable source for quality red curtain material?
Obviously the typical venues still offer great black cloth.
Reviving this old thread, has anyone found a suitable source for quality red curtain material?
Obviously the typical venues still offer great black cloth.
Filzkoeter
stray animal
I've read that the micro tools material is not good. No experience though.
I only used the Aki-Asahi Silk/Rubber (unfortunately only black) shutter cloth to make new curtains for a Zorki and my Leica IIIf... great stuff!
I only used the Aki-Asahi Silk/Rubber (unfortunately only black) shutter cloth to make new curtains for a Zorki and my Leica IIIf... great stuff!