Zorki 3 Vs. 3m

[john_van_v]

I agree with what the others say; the Zorkis 3 and 3m are the two best looking 35mm RFs, ever. It's the sculpting of the rangefinder cover that does it.

My main question is this:

Besides the location of the slow shutter control, is there a fundamental difference between the two cameras with respect to the internal workings? I read that there was some linkage problem between the dials in the 3, is this accurate?

Also, are there any funny rules about setting the speeds with these, especially the 3m, such I experienced the hard way with the FED 5 that I broke (upon opening the box)?

Thanks in advance, John

 

[rick oleson]

I don't have a 3, but from my experience with screw mount Leicas and the Zorki 3M and 4, I would guess that the front-mounted slow speed dial indicates a significant difference in the mechanism of the slow speed system. The 3M uses the single-dial system that became standard for later Zorkis and Feds. In SM Leicas, the slow speed escapement is in the floor under the lens mount, and a long vertical rod connects it to the shutter on top. Even in Leicas, this system tends to need periodic attention to keep the speeds running correctly. The later camera has the entire timing system on top in one assembly, and it is very robust and reliable from what I've been able to see.

I have heard good and bad things about both: some have said the 3's slow speeds were unreliable, others say they are no problem; some say that the later system is prone to damage from improper winding (setting the speed before winding the shutter) but I have not been able to reproduce this problem (maybe I don't try hard enough).

If I had to choose between the 3 and the 3M, I'd pick the 3 for style alone...

 

[john_van_v]

thanks a lot for your opinion

yeah, I agree, that front dial does add to the looks

the aires has that too, but it does something else, like release the film for winding

the earlier aries are very nice looking too

 

[TVphotog]

On looks, the Z3 wins. Something about that slow speed dial on the front. For ease of use the Z3M wins. I have both and really prefer the 3M. My Z3 needs the slow speed mechanism fix as it has broke somehow. If you can find a nice 3M get it. I was lucky and lucked on my 3M. I paid a whopping 25.00$ buck including shipping. It was really ratty. I completely disassembled it and did a ground up CLA on it. It does need recovering as the orignal covering was 'painted' black with a magic marker. Go with the 3M and you would be disappointed.

 

[wolves3012]

Well, first let me say I have neither of these cameras. However, the 3M is the predecessor to the 4 & 4K, which I am familiar with. In terms of mechanics, these are quite a neat job and seem to be pretty reliable with little attention. The Zorki 3 simply *must* be more complex, mechanically, with that second dial so I'd take a guess that it would need more attention to keep it sweet. That doesn't mean it's less reliable if looked after, I don't know enough to say if it is or not.

In terms of aesthetics, the 3 wins over the 3M for me but not to the extent I'd refuse a 3M some shelf-space!

 

[mravigna]

I have a zorki 3

I have a zorki 3

I purchased several months ago a zorki 3 which I would say was in excellent condition (paid 89usd). I shot one film with it and everything was fine. Every single speed seeming to work fine. On my second role, the shutter stopped working. I was unable to cock the shutter. Only the take up spool would turn. None of the speeds were working. I don't think that this had anything to do with the slow speed mechanism. I send to Fedka and they fixed it with a CLA. The shutter curtains did not need replacement. This camera now not only looks terrific but seems to work fine. I did not notice any significant change in shutter noise after the CLA. This surprised me because I really thought that the spring had broken from over tensionning.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Any idea about how many 3s and 3ms were produced? Perhaps someone has info about serial nrs?

cheers

 

[350D_user]

Any idea about how many 3s and 3ms were produced? Perhaps someone has info about serial nrs?

cheers

Princelle reports, in his second edition guide, the 3 and 3m units produced total to 87,569.

 

[fanshaw]

Any idea about how many 3s and 3ms were produced? Perhaps someone has info about serial nrs?

cheers

Princelle says that a combined total of 87,569 were produced.

 

[john_van_v]

I am starting to like my 4K more and more, possibly because of its heritage. It has probably a seperated prism in the RF system that is making rangefinding blurry, but it is functional.

I don't want to take it apart until I get another 4 or 4K. The mechanics seem perfect beside the prism problem, and I think I can glue the prism back together down the line sometime. (got glue?)

Frankly, I am feeling that our little world is getting smaller, and I don't mean in the sense of tighter and closer -- just smaller. All the zorks are going to be absorbed into collections, and they will in the end be more scarce, and hence valuable.

I not opitmistic about getting a 3m in the near future for a great price, not like a 4 or 4K. Also, I am starting to think less of the later FEDs even though they look good in principle; I am troubled by the shutter speed controls.

 

[TVphotog]

If you want a Z3M just keep an eye on the bay. Every once and awhile one will come up that you can sneak out with. Mine was incorrectly listed and came with a Smena. The Z3M was not even really pictured. I saw what it was and bid. It took almost a year and a half to find one, but I scored. If you have a 4K and like it, stick with it. No reason to get a Z3 or 3M unless you want one.

While we are on the topic of Z3s and 3Ms, anybody watch the Hallmark channel's original movies. Here in the US they are producing their own mystery movies. My wife watches them all the time. In one, the main character owns a book store and is an avid amatuer photographer. I can't figure out if she is using a Z3 or another leica-esque camera. If anybody else has seen this and knows what kind of camera it is, it would be cool to know.

 

[rick oleson]

Mechanically, as near as I can tell, the 3M is identical to the 4 except for lacking flash synch. Being earlier than the 4, of course, it has all of the nicer early details such as engraved dials, hefty strap lugs, and leather grained body covering... plus, of course, that nice stepped top cover that they had to give up to make room for the flash synch system in the 4......

 

[john_van_v]

If you have a 4K and like it, stick with it. No reason to get a Z3 or 3M unless you want one.

Well... I think we are all here collectors to a major degree. To me the lenses are like huge precious stones, and the mechanics are like a watch. The cameras have significant history too.

I am SOOO tempted to by one of those gold-plated "bling" cameras with the snake skin covers that we see from the FSU dealers.

Now that would impress the ladies, but I think I would get one w/o the nazi stuff on it.

 

[john_van_v]

Mechanically, as near as I can tell, the 3M is identical to the 4

Do you think that the lever on the 4K a big leap for them in the developmental process? My only Leica is a IIIa, and I don't see the knob as a hinderance at all. I can advance the film by running my finger along it as quickly as I can push a lever w/ my thumb.

In fact, I am not sure why I am messing around w/ old Russian cameras... probably the bad influence of other photogs here on RFF.

 

[wolves3012]

Do you think that the lever on the 4K a big leap for them in the developmental process? My only Leica is a IIIa, and I don't see the knob as a hinderance at all. I can advance the film by running my finger along it as quickly as I can push a lever w/ my thumb.

In fact, I am not sure why I am messing around w/ old Russian cameras... probably the bad influence of other photogs here on RFF.

A lot depends on your preference for the lever-wind if you will like a 4K or not. I think it's very fast and probably one of the best lever-wind FSUs. It's just a shame that by the time they produced the 4K they'd gone downhill to printed dials and no strap-lugs.

 

[wolves3012]

I am SOOO tempted to by one of those gold-plated "bling" cameras with the snake skin covers that we see from the FSU dealers.

Now that would impress the ladies, but I think I would get one w/o the nazi stuff on it.

As a matter of personal choice I simply wouldn't buy a camera with swastikas and nazi-type engravings, I think it's in poor taste. These cameras do, however, seem popular and can fetch more than a standard one, so as an investment they may be worthwhile. As a user, however, you need to ask why someone did this to a camera. The answer is often because it turned a beaten-up and worthless example into something marketable. I understand that they are frequently made from parts of other cameras with varying degrees of useability, that's where my concern would lie.

 

[zhang xk]

A lot depends on your preference for the lever-wind if you will like a 4K or not. I think it's very fast and probably one of the best lever-wind FSUs. It's just a shame that by the time they produced the 4K they'd gone downhill to printed dials and no strap-lugs.

There are 4Ks with engraved speed dials. I have managed to find 4. All were made in early 1970's. If I must have strap lugs, I could swap an early Zorki 4's strap lugged case. These are the most modern Zorkis.

 

[wolves3012]

There are 4Ks with engraved speed dials. I have managed to find 4. All were made in early 1970's. If I must have strap lugs, I could swap an early Zorki 4's strap lugged case. These are the most modern Zorkis.

I've heard of these before but I don't know if any ever left the factory with engraved dials or if they were replaced afterwards. Whatever is the case, they aren't common, unfortunately.

 

[NickolasB]

Hello all.
Zorki-3 (1951-1956) - 87569 pieces
Zorki-3M (1954-1955)- absolutly quantity unknown, but 100% less of Z-3.
Zorki-3C - (1955-1956) - 45572 pieces.

Look more details:
http://www.siberian-shop.com/cameras_range_zorki.htm

 

[Marc-A.]

I've heard of these before but I don't know if any ever left the factory with engraved dials or if they were replaced afterwards. Whatever is the case, they aren't common, unfortunately.

For once I'm lucky, I've got one Zorki4K with the engraved speed dial. In fact, I sold my other Z4K and kept this one it needs a CLA and a new skin to go out again and show off