Zorki 4 flash sync questions

[tofagerl]

I have a Zorki 4 which I have been almost unable to use in the dark due to hand shake.
So I bought a flash! I got a Nikon-compatible Sigma 530, which fires fine with a PC-sync hot shoe adapter I put on the cold shoe on the Zorki.
Thus far, fine.

The problem is that the sync speed for the Zorki is effing 1/30, and that speed doesn't even exist on the dial, the closest are 1/15 and 1/125. Obviously, 1/125 is out of the question since presumably only 1/4 of the picture would get any light, so I'm stuck with 1/15 - and hand shake!

Should I just return the flash and get a better camera for low light, or is there some way to rig the flash to fire longer?

 

[Mablo]

Keep the flash and get a manual Nikon SLR body with a 50mm lens. A Nikon FM2 can do 1/125s or the newer model FM2n 1/250s sync speed.

 

[stevebrot]

Your Zorki should have 1/30s. It is just not where you would expect to see it. It is clockwise on the dial past "B".

Steve

 

[tofagerl]

Jesus, THAT'S 1/30? That explains why "30 seconds" went so fast when I tried it...

Thanks 😀

Oh, and Mablo, I use the flash on my SLRs, but I want an RF for... Absolutely no good reason other than the fact that I like them 😀

 

[Valkir1987]

In case you didn't know: Set the Flash Sync dial on 0 . 😉 Otherwise you will have half flashed pictures.

 

[tofagerl]

That I had picked up. Now the big question though, how do I know which Aperture to set the lens to?
Obviously the light meter will only get me so far, since it doesn't count the flash... My flash has a High setting, and a Low setting (1/16 of high), and the guide number is 53.

What's the formula here...? I haven't used a flash on a manual camera before.

 

[wolves3012]

Guide number is normally given for ASA 100 film and you need to know if it's in metres or feet for a start - I'd say it's feet, being that high. Does it not have an "auto" setting? Must be old if it hasn't!

The aperture you need is easy enough to calculate and assumes all the light is from the flash - that's likely to be near enough true in low light and with the speed on 1/30th. Say your subject is at 8m and you are using ASA 200 film. Your guide number is 53, multiply it by 2 for a start (200/100 for the ASA)=106 and convert to metres=32. Your new guide number is 32 (metres for 200 ASA film). Just divide 32 by your subject distance.

Aperture=32/8 (guide number/distance)=f/4
(if the guide number really was 53m then that would give 106/8=13.25 - f/11 being the nearest "whole" aperture - rather than f/4 as above)

By the way, your Zorki can sync the flash at *any* speed from 1/30th or slower, including "B". Make sure the large ring around the shutter speed dial is set to "0" or "X" (depends on the model). This means you can use it for fill-in flash if you want. If some of the light will be from available light, meter that and decide how much "fill" you want, then balance that off against a reduced flash calculation.

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_number

 

[tofagerl]

Magic, gotcha!

Nah, I'll try to do the math when I get some time, I'm in the middle of an exam to be delivered thursday.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Check if the synchro dial is indeed timing properly. Some Zorki -4 which had been serviced but had its synchro dial carelessly reassembled will not synch properly even if it's set to zero.

To test, remove lens and back. Set the speed to 1/30, and then the synchro dial to zero.

Place a piece of thin white paper on the film plane. Just big enough to cover the film gate and slightly more.

Connect the flash to the camera. Set it to its lowest power. If it has auto modes, set it to its close range setting. The flash should face the lens mount.

Fire the shutter. You should see a full rectangle on the paper covering the film gate as the flash fires. Wind and fire several times- to check for consistency. You can trace the film gate's aperture on the paper as a guide what the full frame size is.

Any flashed image smaller than the film gate's size indicates improper synch timing. In case the flashed rectange is smaller than the true frame size, turn the synchro dial away from the zero position in VERY small increments. See if any other setting/position will give a better timed/synched flashed image.

If you do find a better setting, mark this as the correct position for electronic flash. You can adjust the synchro ring's position to conform, but this may upset the dial or internal settings further.

Try NOT to fire the flash too close to the camera, or the shutter blinds. The Xenon tube flash can cook the rubber coating of the shutter cloth.

And also, even if you had unsteady hands, 1/15 with flash in dim situations should not cause you blurrey photos. At 1/15 a dark scene will have too little light to register on film. In flash photography, the burst of the flash is the EFFECTIVE shutter speed.

 

[ebolton]

OK, stupid question time. I've never wanted to use a flash with my Zorki 4, so I haven't explored this at all. If the flash sych dial must be set on 0 to properly time the flash, what are the other settings for?

 

[ZorkiKat]

OK, stupid question time. I've never wanted to use a flash with my Zorki 4, so I haven't explored this at all. If the flash sych dial must be set on 0 to properly time the flash, what are the other settings for?

It's patterned after the synchro dial of the Leica IIIf.

The synchro dial is actually a variable time switch- 0 means that the circuit closes just as the first curtain clears the film gate. It's used for ELECTRONIC flash ("X-sync") whose xenon tubes flash at its brightest instantaneously.

The older flashbulbs did not flash as quickly. They had a start, and a peak- when all the foil in the lamp burned the brightest. The start to peak times differed in different flash bulb types. This delay ranged from .2 to 20 ms.

The point of having a variable time is to allow the shutter to open in time when the flashbulb flared its brightest. The timing is somewhat different at the other speeds- some flashbulbs will allow synchronisation up to 1/1000 sec with focal plane shutters. So a different synchro setting will be needed for each shutter speed.

When a flashbulb is sync'ed at 0 (no delay), the flash may be missed- the shutter would have started opening before the flashbulb burns, and would have already closed by the time the bulb peaks.

Same thing happens with electronic flash. When there is a delay in the synchro switch, the flash will fire (the switch closes the circuit before the shutter is able to open) before the shutters open, and the exposure will then be missed.

 

[ebolton]

Thanks ZK, that makes sense. I never think about flash bulbs. They were still common when I was a kid, but fading fast.

 

[summar]

FWIW: I have a Leica IIIf with the original flash instructions, which say you should use a synch setting of 2 with electronic flash (Elektronenblitz). This works for me. I like using the IIIf for flash because of the large rangefinder view (a big help in dim light), also because I like capturing ambient light, which the 1/30 synch speed does nicely.

 

[ZorkiKat]

FWIW: I have a Leica IIIf with the original flash instructions, which say you should use a synch setting of 2 with electronic flash (Elektronenblitz). This works for me. I like using the IIIf for flash because of the large rangefinder view (a big help in dim light), also because I like capturing ambient light, which the 1/30 synch speed does nicely.

There were two sets of these synchro tables issued: one for the "black" dial (black synchro engravings) and another for the "red" dial (red synchro engravings) cameras.

The black dial Leicas (old style speeds- 30-40-60...) will synch X only at 1/30 and the sync dial must be set at 0. The same settings usually applied to converted sync'ed cameras as well.

The red dial Leicas (speeds, 25-50-75...) will synch X at 1/25 and 1/50. At 1/25 the synchro dial must be at 2, and at 1/50, it should be at 20.

One of my Leica IIIf RD had been previously repaired without setting the synchro dial first and noting its position. The dial no longer times properly and will allow only 1/25 X synch. The same can be said of may Zenit or Zorki which used the synchro dials.

The Soviets at least simplified the dial method. In the earlier cameras like the Zorki-3C or ZOrki-4, the numbers they used indicated the timed delay, thus "0" actually really meant zero-delay.

In the later cameras, they put instead "X" where "0" used to be and the letters M and MF at other parts of the dial.