Zorki 4 increasing winding resistance until film tears

[flyingcameras]

Hi, please help. I recently got a Zorki 4, after I got one previously which was non-functional. This new one was said to be serviced. The shutter seems to work 100% fine. But after 5 photos or so, I can feel the amount of resistance/tension of the winder knob increasing when winding the film on until it tears the film. At first I thought I had just loaded the film wrong perhaps. I do make sure to have the rewind ring around the shutter release button as anti-clockwise as possible as the manuals say.

I loaded it with a new film today, very carefully making sure to do it right, and just before this tearing happened when I felt the resistance of the winder knob increasing, I opened the back cover, and I couldn't see what the issue was, but for some reason the winding knob was just giving more and more resistance, struggling to pull more film out until the spikes/bumps which fit through the sprocket holes eventually tore through the sprocket holes of the film. For the life of me I can't see what the issue is. :bang: I just want to take photos!

thank you for reading.

 

[ForestCap]

Does the sprocket spin when you wind and cock the shutter?

When loaded with film, does the rewind knob spin when you advance the film?

 

[flyingcameras]

Hi nukecoke, thank you for your reply,

The sprocket does spin fine when I wind and cock the shutter yes.

No the rewind knob does not spin at all it stays still. Is this the issue, that the rewind knob is stiff so its stopping the film from being wound on? It does feel very stiff, when I pull the rewind knob out too. If this is where the issue is, do I just need to unscrew it and lubricate it to get it spinning freely again?

 

[ForestCap]

Hi,
If the rewind knob got gummed up by old oil or whatever, and does not spin freely, it can hinder the film advance, since the rewind knob is connected with advance mechanism by the film itself.

A rewind knob in working condition should be turned easily, hardly with any resistant feeling when you turn it with fingers. To give you a reference if you don't have another camera to compare with: You can compare it with the wind knob on your Zorki-4, the resistant feeling when turning the rewind knob should be smaller(or the same) than the wind knob on rewind mode .

It's been a while since I cleaned my now sold Z-4, but I believe it is something you can fix at home if that is the cause. Just observe a lot before each step further.

 

[flyingcameras]

Hi, thank you so much! You are right and the rewind knob was far too stiff. I just tried to clean and lubricate it a bit, and testing with some film, and I think the issue is gone now, the rewind knob does turn now when winding the film and seems to let me continue winding film now without the tearing problem. It is still a bit stiff, but it seems to work now without the tearing, but if this film tearing happens again, I will try to clean it more. I did unscrew the one screw in the shaft of the rewind knob, but I could not see a simple way to completely disassemble the rewind knob inner parts. I did that Zorki CLA with the previous non-functional Zorki that I got, but I don't remember it including how to clean/disassemble the rewind knob.
Thank you!

 

[css9450]

That must be some crazy hard dried-out lubricant!

 

[flyingcameras]

Yes, it was very stiff and is still a bit too stiff I think, but the film can be wound on now without the tearing from the looks of it. If I can, after this film I will try to clean it out more, I'm just not sure yet how to get better access to where this dried out oil or lubricant must be. I added a little lighter fluid and then some light oil, but its not yet perfect. When the rewind knob is pulled up, it can turn reasonably easy now, but I think its still a little too stiff. But I'm just so glad that the issue has been fixed enough to be able to use the camera properly now!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

FIY, I recently purchased "cleared, lubricated, adjusted and tested with film" FSU camera.
On arrival, it has sticking slow speeds, bouncing shutter at moderate speeds and one part is missing. In messages exchange I figured out what "cleared, lubricated, adjusted and tested with film" is nothing but copy, paste by ESL seller. In followed by this conversation with trusted FSU cameras repair person, I was told what next to none FSU sellers are selling it after service.
In best case scenario they will hire guy who knows where to drop kerosine to keep camera clicking for three months.
Welcome to the DIY club...

 

[flyingcameras]

Thank you Ko.Fe. Sorry to hear that you also ended up with a dysfunctional camera, thats unfortunate. The first Zorki I got was a gamble from someone who had no idea if it was working properly or not, though they didn't sell it as broken, they sold it as in "good condition", I got a total refund at least. I tried the Zorki CLA for it but it had deep issues that I couldn't fix myself. This new one seems perfect aside from this film winding issue, but as nukecoke said I think it is all down to the really stiff rewind knob. After I've shot the current film I'll try to full extract the rewind knob and the inside parts of it if possible so that I can hopefully get to the part where this old gummed up oil or lubricant is, since its still not quite right. I think the seller assumed the rewind knob worked find, or didn't try turning it, and didn't test the camera with any film to see this issue occur. The screws can just be a little easy to strip, the screw in the rewind knob shaft is very tight/stiff, so I'm a bit worried about stripping the screw or any other screws involved. Thank you

 

[ForestCap]

Glad to know you fixed it. There is no easy way in old rangefinders, no matter made in Germany, Japan, or USSR. From RF patch calibration to lens calibration, from shutter tension adjustment to overall smoothness, a lot of work would be done before you get a working kit if you decide to DIY them. The good side is that you can save a lot of money from paying CLA fee, and use them to buy films (or beer and snacks!).

 

[flyingcameras]

Hi nukecoke, thank you very much. I've been lucky with vintage cameras I've had until now since almost all have been working perfectly, but these Zorki's have been some trouble.

I realized that the rewind knob was still too stiff, since eventually the film did tear again. This time, I figured out how to totally remove the rewind knob and shaft/parts. I realized it is just one screw holding it there, it was just very stiff and tight in there. I don't know exactly what the issue was, since I saw no obvious dried up oil or grease, but I struggled a lot re-assembling the whole rewind knob/shaft, so all I can think is, at some point it got bent/hit and started turning at not quite 90 degrees, causing it to become so stiff, and so when I disassembled it and assembled it, it corrected it, but the deformation caused it to struggle to be reassembled. I have no idea since the rewind knob didn't look damaged or hit or obviously bent, and it did look like it was perfectly perpendicular.

So I actually had to sand parts of the shaft and drill parts of the shaft/pipe very slightly wider inside to get it all together again since it was far too tight/stiff to fit back together at first. But it definitely turns very smoothly and well now like I realize it should. It just took a lot of elbow grease and work! The person who apparently serviced it definitely didn't properly check the rewind knob.