zorki 4 problems

[JS1]

Hi all
I bought very cheaply a zorki 4 in good condition, and everything seems to work fine, until the first film was developped. A series of vertical bands on mostly a black negative. What went wrong do you think ? Shutter problems ?

thanks for your help
Johan

 

[ath]

Since the borders are clear, the light came through the shutter.
Take off the back and the lens, place the camera towards a light and check the shutter:
- tight when cocked?
- tight when released?
- tight during cocking?

HTH

 

[xayraa33]

the 2nd shutter curtain is not closing across the film frame,

 

[JS1]

the 2nd shutter curtain is not closing across the film frame,

I have opened the camera and noticed that the shutter window was not completely closed, so I rewinded the film with an open window 🙁

I now have cocked the shutter, but what ever I try, the shutter will not fire any longer ... any tips for this problem ??

thanks Johan

 

[xayraa33]

if you are not skilled at taking the camera apart and doing repairs, or you just do not want to, your best bet is to get the camera CLAed by Oleg or Fedka.

 

[rbiemer]

Oleg:
http://www.okvintagecamera.com/index.html
FEDKA:
http://www.fedka.com/catalog/
I have had work done by both of these gentlemen and can recommend either.
If you're willing and able to do the work your self, there are also some good places to get the info you'll need for that.
Start here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33914
Good luck!
Rob

 

[julio1fer]

In the Zorki 4 sometimes the release button gets stuck after rewinding, so you wind film but cannot release the shutter.

Try rotating slighty the serrated shutter release button (not the release collar, which controls rewind or forward film movement but the actual release), it may just pop up and everything could be OK.

 

[JS1]

Hi all

many thanks for all the tips ! I will try some of them out and let you know what happened

best wishes
Johan

 

[JS1]

Hi all,

the camera is completely taken apart now, as descrived here on the forum, and somehow the shutter is working again. I do have a problem with the curtains though. The second curtain (when the shutter is cocked) is not moving straight onto the roll put seems to wrap-up a bit (only at the lower side) as something is hindering its movement .. any suggestions what I can do ?

thanks for your help
Johan

 

[wolves3012]

Hi all,

the camera is completely taken apart now, as descrived here on the forum, and somehow the shutter is working again. I do have a problem with the curtains though. The second curtain (when the shutter is cocked) is not moving straight onto the roll put seems to wrap-up a bit (only at the lower side) as something is hindering its movement .. any suggestions what I can do ?

thanks for your help
Johan

From what you say it sounds as though one of the ribbons has come unglued from its drum, although I'm not entirely clear on what you describe. Either that or one end of the lath is fouling against the light baffle in front of the curtains. Look carefully to see if the lath is free to move across the frame.

 

[JS1]

From what you say it sounds as though one of the ribbons has come unglued from its drum, although I'm not entirely clear on what you describe. Either that or one end of the lath is fouling against the light baffle in front of the curtains. Look carefully to see if the lath is free to move across the frame.

you are right, the upper ribbon is loose and not glued onto the drum any longer 🙁 and retracted ... I guess I need to take it complete apart ....

 

[JS1]

I glued the ribbon of the curtain back onto the rod and all seems to work fine now, but I have a few more question related to firing the second curtain (as it does not fire automatically any more):

1. I removed the slow speed escapement and the second curtain release arm. How does this release arm work excatly ? It goes up and down but somehow I can figure it out ? Does someone has a picture of the installed arm on a Zorki 4 ?


2. When the slow speed escapement is put back, is the position of the escapement pawl pivot (the little cam) important, ie. should it block the tiny lever or not ?

3. Is it correct that the escapement pawl pivot is not used with high speeds ?



Thanks for your help
Johan

 

[wolves3012]

I glued the ribbon of the curtain back onto the rod and all seems to work fine now, but I have a few more question related to firing the second curtain (as it does not fire automatically any more):

1. I removed the slow speed escapement and the second curtain release arm. How does this release arm work excatly ? It goes up and down but somehow I can figure it out ? Does someone has a picture of the installed arm on a Zorki 4 ?


2. When the slow speed escapement is put back, is the position of the escapement pawl pivot (the little cam) important, ie. should it block the tiny lever or not ?

3. Is it correct that the escapement pawl pivot is not used with high speeds ?



Thanks for your help
Johan

Answers:
1) The second curtain drives a small arm around - you can see this under the speed selector. The release arm traps this arm when you press the shutter button. As the first curtain rotates, the speed selector pushes the second-curtain release arm aside, allowing the second curtain to close. The reason the second curtain release moves up and down when you press the shutter is to cater for "B" setting. On "B", the curtain release is trapped for ever until this arm rises. There are plenty of pictures around showing it, since it's almost identical on all FEDs and Zorkis. If you can't find one I'll post one for you.

2) Yes it's crucial to set the slow speed mechanism cam properly. Refer to the Zorki 4/4K CLA sticky thread to see how to set it properly. The cam must be positioned so that it clears the tiny lever when installed.

3) The slow speed mechanism is engaged for speeds of 1/60 or less (except for 1/30th!). Speeds of B, 1/30 and 1/125th or higher do not engage it.

Hope that helps!

 

[JS1]

Answers:
1) The second curtain drives a small arm around - you can see this under the speed selector. The release arm traps this arm when you press the shutter button. As the first curtain rotates, the speed selector pushes the second-curtain release arm aside, allowing the second curtain to close. The reason the second curtain release moves up and down when you press the shutter is to cater for "B" setting. On "B", the curtain release is trapped for ever until this arm rises. There are plenty of pictures around showing it, since it's almost identical on all FEDs and Zorkis. If you can't find one I'll post one for you.

2) Yes it's crucial to set the slow speed mechanism cam properly. Refer to the Zorki 4/4K CLA sticky thread to see how to set it properly. The cam must be positioned so that it clears the tiny lever when installed.

3) The slow speed mechanism is engaged for speeds of 1/60 or less (except for 1/30th!). Speeds of B, 1/30 and 1/125th or higher do not engage it.

Hope that helps!

Many thanks for this Wolves. To be sure (because my limited English knowledge), if you say in 2. 'The cam must be positioned so that it clears the tiny lever ', do you mean the tiny lever should be pushed to the left (as to release the 2nd window) or should it be in rest , ie.in the 'right' position ...

best regards
Johan

 

[JS1]

a quick other question : the slow speed escapement is removed. When the shutter button is pressed the small arm of the second window under the speed selecter turns clockwise and hits the second-curtain release arm .. however, it does not push it aside, but simply blocks. I can then manually move the second-curtain release arm to the left and the second windows closes when the small arm under the speed selector can rotate further.

Is this normal behaviour ?

best wishes
Johan

 

[wolves3012]

a quick other question : the slow speed escapement is removed. When the shutter button is pressed the small arm of the second window under the speed selecter turns clockwise and hits the second-curtain release arm .. however, it does not push it aside, but simply blocks. I can then manually move the second-curtain release arm to the left and the second windows closes when the small arm under the speed selector can rotate further.

Is this normal behaviour ?

best wishes
Johan

Johan,
No that's not how it should work. The small spring that pushes the release arm inwards and downwards is either not fitted correctly or is under too much tension. I had a similar problem on a Zorki 5 which I cured by gently bending the spring to reduce the pressure. This assumes that the slow-speed catch is not interfering, somthing you need to check if you have the slow-speed escapement removed.

 

[wolves3012]

Many thanks for this Wolves. To be sure (because my limited English knowledge), if you say in 2. 'The cam must be positioned so that it clears the tiny lever ', do you mean the tiny lever should be pushed to the left (as to release the 2nd window) or should it be in rest , ie.in the 'right' position ...

best regards
Johan

Ok, I'll try to explain this better. When you install the slow-speed escapement it will be partly wound up and it must be held like that. The cam that you have noticed will not touch the tiny lever underneath if you do this properly.

 

[JS1]

Wolves

many thanks for your patience ! It was very helpfull and after a few attempts installing the escapement again, all speeds seem to work fine now. I have put everything together already.

I also have another zorki 4 with needs a good CLA. I have noticed that the camera house seems to be glued on some places, especially near the lens fittings. I cannot open if without forcing it ... thats a pitty

best wishes
Johan

 

[JS1]

here some pictures of my little adventure

tried to keep everything in order of disassembly

 

[JS1]

the problem found why the windows got stuck, one loose ribbon

After many attempts I managed to get the ribbon back in place without opening the camera further