fidget
Lemon magnet
A while ago I stripped my Zorki 6 down to give it a CLA and "cure" a hanging curtain. After stripping, when I looked at the bits which lay in the tray, curtains jumbled and knotted, one ribbon unglued and a mass of screws, I realized that I should have made MUCH better notes of the order of strip down and where things were in relation to other things. In the few weeks since I shelved the tray I also (skillfully and with some aptitude for these mistakes) lost my notes!
Today, I attempted to re-assemble it. The first and most valuable task was to figure out how the shutter curtains and escapements worked. This took a little time but was very rewarding. Several fit/strip/fit sessions later, they are fitted and look good! I am so lucky that only one ribbon came off, the remaining one giving a datum for glueing the second back on. (It came off whilst I was removing the sprung bobbins, it's very easy to damage at this stage) This took 6 hours, if both ribbons had come off, it would be in the scrap bin by now.
Now that the curtain assembly is back in place I can try to set up the spring tension for each curtain. I guess that I could set it up to sound right and give the right sort of gap/speed as seen on the PC monitor test, anyone know of a good set up process for this?
( I know that many of us would ship this to the expert(s), but I wanted to have a go and learn (and I'm too mean)) Regards....
Today, I attempted to re-assemble it. The first and most valuable task was to figure out how the shutter curtains and escapements worked. This took a little time but was very rewarding. Several fit/strip/fit sessions later, they are fitted and look good! I am so lucky that only one ribbon came off, the remaining one giving a datum for glueing the second back on. (It came off whilst I was removing the sprung bobbins, it's very easy to damage at this stage) This took 6 hours, if both ribbons had come off, it would be in the scrap bin by now.
Now that the curtain assembly is back in place I can try to set up the spring tension for each curtain. I guess that I could set it up to sound right and give the right sort of gap/speed as seen on the PC monitor test, anyone know of a good set up process for this?
( I know that many of us would ship this to the expert(s), but I wanted to have a go and learn (and I'm too mean)) Regards....
DaveP
Well-known
I set them both to 4 1/2 turns then do the tv test from there............
peterc
Heretic
That's what digital cameras are for. I took digicam shots when I was stripping down the rangefinder on my Zorki 4K. Really helped when it came time to put it all back together. But, Murphy's Law being what it is, I did manage to lose a screw.fidget said:
Peter
allthumbs
Established
Hello everyone!
This kind gentleman photographed his own partial disassembly of a Zorki 6, and for the rest has compiled links to disassembly and adjustment notes for cameras with similar guts (shutter assemblies):
http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/674/2979.html?1091835071
Good luck.
If your experience has given you any insight as to how a fellow Z6 owner could solve narrow/variable frame spacing and a slight frame tilt , please let me know.
Hey, whaddaya know, my first RFF post!
This kind gentleman photographed his own partial disassembly of a Zorki 6, and for the rest has compiled links to disassembly and adjustment notes for cameras with similar guts (shutter assemblies):
http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/674/2979.html?1091835071
Good luck.
If your experience has given you any insight as to how a fellow Z6 owner could solve narrow/variable frame spacing and a slight frame tilt , please let me know.
Hey, whaddaya know, my first RFF post!
fidget
Lemon magnet
Thanks for your input and welcome to allthumbs. I had seen some of the pictorial strip sequences, makes me wish that I had photographed the stripdown of mine, but it wouldn't wait for the batteries to charge! I doubt that photographing the stripdown would help much in setting up the curtains or spring tension. When I removed the bottom plate the curtains fell out, not leaving much scope to assess how they fit back in. Of course, there will be a way to remove the bottom plate leaving the curtains in place. I guess that a much more structured strip, combining (experienced) instruction and photos would be of great value. Perhaps I will have a go at that.
I set the curtain spring tension to around 4 to 4.5 turns and it all looks good. The TV monitor test shows parallel strips so the curtains must move in sync, yet to check that the speed is about right, I assume that the more tension, the faster the shutter speed?
The number of variables in the set up of the shutter (even without replacing the curtains) made this job quite involved, much more than just "re-assemble in the reverse order". I will not do this again unless I really have to (at the point of deciding "junk or send to expert"). Having said this, I recently "fixed" my Kiev when I found and removed a small piece of glass (there from new?) from the winder mechanism cogs. (Kiev now doing very nicely) Just seeing the mechanics of the Kiev was a sobering experience. In comparison, the mechanics of FEDs and Zorkis have all the complexity of a knife and fork. Not one to cut your teeth on!
Now I have to complete the minor re-assembly items of the Zorki 6. I see that the flash contact, a small disc with "pip" can be fixed in any position on the shaft. Anyone got a worker where they can see the orientation of the disc?
Regards....and thanks...
I set the curtain spring tension to around 4 to 4.5 turns and it all looks good. The TV monitor test shows parallel strips so the curtains must move in sync, yet to check that the speed is about right, I assume that the more tension, the faster the shutter speed?
The number of variables in the set up of the shutter (even without replacing the curtains) made this job quite involved, much more than just "re-assemble in the reverse order". I will not do this again unless I really have to (at the point of deciding "junk or send to expert"). Having said this, I recently "fixed" my Kiev when I found and removed a small piece of glass (there from new?) from the winder mechanism cogs. (Kiev now doing very nicely) Just seeing the mechanics of the Kiev was a sobering experience. In comparison, the mechanics of FEDs and Zorkis have all the complexity of a knife and fork. Not one to cut your teeth on!
Now I have to complete the minor re-assembly items of the Zorki 6. I see that the flash contact, a small disc with "pip" can be fixed in any position on the shaft. Anyone got a worker where they can see the orientation of the disc?
Regards....and thanks...
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fidget
Lemon magnet
Allthumbs, I have not yet had a film in this Zorki, so can't really confirm that mine even works. Tilted frames must mean that the film is being passed from one horizontal level to another, how does it look when you spring open the back in mid film?
Good luck.
Good luck.
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je2a3
je
fidget said:
More tension doesn't necessarily = faster speed, there's a point of diminishing returns. However I haven't stripped a Zorki 6 but in my experience with Leica II and it's Zorki/Fed clones and the succeeding Fed 2, 4 turns is max 3-4 more the norm. Sometimes 3-3.5 turns is enough to get the shutter speeds right if you find the sweet spot orientation between the curtain drum disc [the one that controls the closing curtain] and the coupling pin lever under the shutter speed disc.
With regards to the flash contact disc underneath I think it should be approximately at 3 o'clock position. Here's a link to a scan from Maizenberg. I hope this is what you were talking about....
http://members.myactv.net/~je205d/flash.jpg
Hope this helps!
darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
peterc said:
Peter, you'll ALWAYS lose screws when reassembling anything
Happens to me with notebooks, computers, lenses, virtually anything "screwable" ...
fidget
Lemon magnet
je2a3,
Yes, just the little button! Many thanks.
Thanks for the extra info on shutter tension, it's just ocurred to me that this will be vastly different depending on whether we mean 4 turns (or however many) when cocked or uncocked as the sprung spindle turns almost through 2 turns as it is wound/released. 4 turns from cocked (giving 2 from uncocked) is very little so I guess that these figures relate to tension applied before cocking. I have a FED2 which has a beautifully soft shutter, but it sometimes hangs or is slow to start off when fired at 1/500th. I think that the 1st curtain needs a little more urge to trip the second curtain. Other speeds have more of a run up than the fastest.
Yes, just the little button! Many thanks.
Thanks for the extra info on shutter tension, it's just ocurred to me that this will be vastly different depending on whether we mean 4 turns (or however many) when cocked or uncocked as the sprung spindle turns almost through 2 turns as it is wound/released. 4 turns from cocked (giving 2 from uncocked) is very little so I guess that these figures relate to tension applied before cocking. I have a FED2 which has a beautifully soft shutter, but it sometimes hangs or is slow to start off when fired at 1/500th. I think that the 1st curtain needs a little more urge to trip the second curtain. Other speeds have more of a run up than the fastest.
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fidget
Lemon magnet
Allthumbs,
Please forgive me for asking this, but you don't use the film rewind release button to fire the shutter do you? This button looks for all the world like it should be the shutter release button (and it does release the shutter) and it's in the "right place" for a shutter release button, but it will also release the film wind sprocket, this could cause the film to move backwards into the cassette before you wind on again. The actual shutter release button sits in the centre of the film counter scale.
Just a thought, regards.......
Please forgive me for asking this, but you don't use the film rewind release button to fire the shutter do you? This button looks for all the world like it should be the shutter release button (and it does release the shutter) and it's in the "right place" for a shutter release button, but it will also release the film wind sprocket, this could cause the film to move backwards into the cassette before you wind on again. The actual shutter release button sits in the centre of the film counter scale.
Just a thought, regards.......
je2a3
je
fidget said:
I attach the shutter crate to the body with the curtain laths overlapping wrapped around the drum with the second curtain disc and pin hole around 180 degrees opposite without tension like Maizenberg suggests for early Fed/Zorki. I guess that's the cocked position. But later in the book dealing with Fed 2s he claims that it can be pre tensioned. I've had more luck reassembling w/o tension. I'm talking 3-4 turns based on this.
Anyway good luck with the project and hope all goes well!
Joseph
allthumbs
Established
He he! I have shot at least two rolls using the Zorki's rewind button as a shutter release! Took me some time to figure out why I was getting so many half frames. But that was a long time ago. I agree with those who think that's where the release ought to be, plus I didn't like the feel of the Zorki shutter release button. Adding a soft release helped a lot.fidget said:
As for the tilt, I have obvious vertical play in my take up spool and in the cartridge chamber. Usually the result is a consistent one-degree tilt, sometimes the whole frame is too high or low. I haven't figured out whether I need shims or something else. The other thing is, I kind of like the sprocket holes encroaching into some of my shots--it's probably the only thing I will ever have in common with HCB.
Frame spacing is more bothersome to me, as it can make cutting negatives very tricky.
What I have heard about curtain tensioning concurs with the above advice--the goal apparently is just enough tension to do the job and no more.
It seems you are doing well, fidget. Good luck!