Zorki to Leica or ...

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texchappy

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I have a zorki 4 with an industar 50mm that I've shot a little and gotten decent results with. But I've been wondering about getting a Leica LTM. I've also seen good prices on the Canon Raf (and Canonet) and some nice looking Nikons. What would I be getting going to one of these over the FSU camera?

Which one would you recommend and why?
 
You would be getting a crappier viewfinder and rangefinder and a more difficult time loading film. On the plus side, you can possibly get a more reliable camera.
 
If you like the Zorki, you probably won't like an LTM Leica. But you might like an LTM Canon, such as a the 7 or P.
 
What is it about the Zorki that's making you think about other cameras? All cameras have shortcomings and limitations, but if there are specific aspects of using the Zorki that you would like to improve on, it is necessary to first identify them.

If, on the other hand, it's just an urge to try something different, then it's just a matter of finding something interesting and going for it.
 
Old cameras are likely to need a CLA which adds to the cost so if your Zorki is working OK hang onto it and use the money to buy film.
 
Not long time ago I used fully CLAd Fed 2 with coll. Industar. Then some barnacks. The FSU was better because it was in better condition. Would apply to any old cameras.
 
If you want to try some non-FSU bodies but still want to spend reasonable amount of money instead of make a dent in your wallet, I'd say a Canon body + FSU lenses is a good combo for you.

Later Canons (some of the V, all of the VI and 7 series) have metal shutter curtains, which can make you leave your lens cap at home. I like it. Metal shutter curtains work better then cloth shutter when the temperature is below 0 (this is just my experience, other people's experience may vary).

Canons usually need less care and don't be surprised if the camera comes with working shutter without CLA.

All the V, VI and 7 series Canons have multi-viewfinder instead of having only 50mm as you see on most FSU and LTM Leica cameras. If you shoot 35mm a lot this will be a huge advantage since you don't need to add an external viewfinder to destroy the streamline-ness of the camera. Avoid Canon P if you like shooting with eye-glass on.

All in all, the Canons are more advanced cameras than LTM Leica, and they are larger cameras.


If you really want to use something similar to LTM Leica, get a CLA'd Zorki-1 first. Just to find the feeling. Then you can decide if you need to buy a LTM Leica or not.
 
I'd second the Bessa R. Lovely big viewfinder, ttl metering, faster top shutter speed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I've never had any good experiences with Soviet cameras. They have design issues as well as variations in quality of construction. The have often been used hard, and maintained little.

I started with a Moskva 5 which was probably out of alignment. I could never get a sharp image across the field with it. Sold, with disclosure of its issues.

Then a Fed 1. This one worked well, but then I discovered that the lens flange to film distance is not standard. This was an early camera. It only worked with its 50mm f/3.5 FED lens. Too limiting, so it was sold. But it was a nice camera.


Next a Fed 2. I was initially very happy with this, but then I discovered that the shutter tapered at speeds over 1/125. One edge of the frame was definitely underexposed. I sent it to FEDKA to service. His repairman only seemed to increase the shutter spring tensions to crazy levels. It still tapered, and generally underexposed, which indicated that the shutter travel was too fast overall. It needed to be stripped down and cleaned. I adjusted the spring tensions over the course of a week, using a CRT TV to check for evenness from one frame edge to the next. By the time I got it well adjusted, I was so sick of it I traded it to FEDKA. He wrote back,
"Why do you want to trade in such a well adjusted body?"

The answer: "because I want to buy a Canon 7s".
The 7s itself needed adjustment, but once it was done, it has continues to work reliably and accurately.

I now use a Bessa R for most of my LTM shooting. It is the M6 of LTM cameras.
 
I bought a Zorki 1d to see what this business with the Leica Barnack series was all about. I liked it for it's compactness, especially the collapsible I-22. The lens is a good performer, even with all the junk that was inside it. But I got tired of having to strip it down after every shoot to fix the inevitable burn holes in the shutter.

Bought a Canon P, and that solved that problem.

I still liked the different variations with the FED and Zorki cameras, in particular the FED 2D, and the Zorki-6 with their wide base rangefinders, and self timers. And the lenses!

Unfortunately, I never got one model that didn't have something either wrong with it at time of purchase, or go that way shortly after. And I kept blasting the curtains. I was going to send the Zorki-6 to Fedka for an overhaul, until he said that it would be sent overseas to his repairman. With shipping and all, I could buy one from Yuri with a warranty for less money.

I may some day go back to using the FEDs and Zorkis, but I'm sticking with my Canon, Zeiss, and Nikon gear for now. They just don't fall apart like the FSU stuff does. And I don't need to shim lenses either. Or trim film leaders.

PF
 
Why move, for me it was reliability. I was attracted by the price, then sunk the same amount in trying to get it fixed.

I've fallen in love with Nikons S2 and a Nikkor 50. I grew up on Nikon/Nikkormat bodies so it felt right at home. I actually learned that all the trash I've spoken over the years was wrong. I never liked the 50mm focal length before, but on the S2 it was the lens (at least to me). Most Nikon RFs don't need a lot of cola to pick up and use. Leicas on the other hand done.

Not to say Leicas are not fun and pretty much the standard everyone tries to match or beat.

I've never owned a canon but wouldn't shy away from a good one (there's a P which caught my eye in the classifieds now, no relearionship nor knowledge of the seller).

I loved every Bessa I've owned and would recommend them too. My favorite was a black Bessa L with a snap-shot cv25 and some times the fun cv15. The light meter lights on the top of the body make life very easy.

B2(;->
 
I've had two Zorki 4s and one 4K, and the worst I've had happen is the long shutter speeds be off. They're great cameras. I can't say the same about Feds or Kievs which have mostly been a bad bunch in my experience. The Zorki 4 is about as good as it gets in soviet rangefinders. It has a big, bright viewfinder, it's relatively easy to load, the quality is decent, and they made them for a long time so you don't have to gamble on a camera that's been abused for 75 years. But they also ceased production before Soviet quality went into the toilet in the 1980s (a late Fed 5B was by far the most poorly finished camera I've ever held, excluding some toy cameras made in Hong Kong, and later Kievs weren't much better). So you've got a good start in the 4.

The Leica LTM cameras are a step back, you get a smaller viewfinder which is useless for anybody who likes to compose their photos, and you get fiddly film loading. These are cameras for masochists and nostalgic fanatics.

The Canon rangefinders are a bit of a step up. They're finished better, you get a better viewfinder, and you get lever wind, and relatively simple film loading.

Beyond that, there's the Cosina line of LTM cameras, assuming you want the feel of a modern camera. I prefer old cameras.
 
BillBingham2 said:
Why move, for me it was reliability. I was attracted by the price, then sunk the same amount in trying to get it fixed.

I've fallen in love with Nikons S2 and a Nikkor 50. I grew up on Nikon/Nikkormat bodies so it felt right at home. I actually learned that all the trash I've spoken over the years was wrong. I never liked the 50mm focal length before, but on the S2 it was the lens (at least to me). Most Nikon RFs don't need a lot of cola to pick up and use. Leicas on the other hand done.

Not to say Leicas are not fun and pretty much the standard everyone tries to match or beat.

I've never owned a canon but wouldn't shy away from a good one (there's a P which caught my eye in the classifieds now, no relearionship nor knowledge of the seller).

I loved every Bessa I've owned and would recommend them too. My favorite was a black Bessa L with a snap-shot cv25 and some times the fun cv15. The light meter lights on the top of the body make life very easy.

B2(;->
Click to expand...


I thought about the Nikon 'familiarity' because I have an F2 and a Nikkormat that I've shot quite a bit.
 
Hmmm, we are talking about second-hand cameras and so I might as well add my usual comment. It's a matter of luck with second-hand cameras; you might get a good one and you might get a bad one. Either might be good looking but it's what's inside that counts.

So you have to factor in the cost of repairs by a competent technician.

Mostly it's the previous owners who make or mar cameras. Some have no idea and will slowly ruin the camera and then sell it on. Others understand that all cameras need checking and looking after and will keep their's in pristine condition. The trouble is, people blame the makers for it and not the owners. The other problem is that people are willing to spend a fortune on a Leica and even more on regular maintenance but won't even think about it for a FED, Zorki or Kiev. And they sell them on in poor condition and they blame FED and Zorki for what happened to the camera 50 years after it left the factory.

Worse still there are people who think any idiot can repair a camera and when they've ruined it blame the makers, if it is FED or Zorki. Look in any forum at other makes and you'll find people with broken or damaged cameras of all makes but that is ignored as knocking FED and Zorki and Kiev is very popular...

Luckily there's a few of us who know how good a FED or Zorki can be but a lot of people will ignore that.

Regards, David
 
The person in Russia I bought my Zorki from did say it had a fresh CLA. And it does seem to work well. You do raise a good point about maintenance- I'm not sure I know how to properly carry it out.
 
Here we go again...

I know from my own experience, what cameras like Lubitel, Zorki, FED-2 are much more easy to fix comparing to Leica, Rolleiflex. And because they cost next to nothing, most will try to fix FSU gear, but lose interest in finishing of it. Because it is cheap and was made in huge numbers.

From people who repairs FSU gear for years I know what many particular cameras were build from parts which could be easily broke or manufactured wrongly. And these people who are doing FSU repairs are accepting it as given. They are buying broken cameras and using them for spares. This is what was happening with almost everything made in FSU, not just cameras.

So let's not blame just on owners in the past and current ones for broken and not repaired cameras. I'm member of russian rangefinder forum and FSU quality control is well known issue at this forum. Many cameras and lenses left factories in non working conditions. It is not urban myth, but fact. They were stored unused for decades and now were sold for years on ebay as like new by incompetent sellers. And this is what usual uninformed buyer wants to buy. I have purchased it numerous times. I also purchased as CLA'd while it was not. And only once I purchased FED-2 from ebay which was listed as serviced and tested with film. It was incredible camera-lens kit.
 
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