phatnev
Well-known
Robert Doisneau : I had a few problems with the law. It appears that people have rights about their own image, and this often prevents me from catching their spontaneity. So I must stop them and say, "I noticed you while passing by, would you mind kissing again?" That's what happened with the "Hôtel de Ville lovers", they re-enacted their kiss. Those with the grocer were a couple I hired.
What do ya'll think?
Just to make it "M" related
Frank Horvat: It must be said that I was an unconditional follower of Cartier-Bresson. When I first came to Paris, I had the nerve to show him some of my Rolleiflex photos. He exclaimed that if God had wanted us to photograph with a 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 camera, he would have put eyes on our bellies. So I bought a Leica and tried to follow his advice, at least as far as I understood it. But that made me intolerant : for instance I found that your photos had too much anecdote and not enough composition, I only saw the drawbacks of the 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 format, the fact that it made you compose around the centre of the image, while neglecting what happened at the edges . Only much later their real significance dawned on me, and it was like a revelation. From then on, the people in your photos began to exist for me, I knew what they were thinking or going to do. Each of them seemed to emit a ray of energy, and your composition consisted in the interplayof these energies. Of course I should have grasped it much earlier.
What do ya'll think?
Just to make it "M" related
Frank Horvat: It must be said that I was an unconditional follower of Cartier-Bresson. When I first came to Paris, I had the nerve to show him some of my Rolleiflex photos. He exclaimed that if God had wanted us to photograph with a 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 camera, he would have put eyes on our bellies. So I bought a Leica and tried to follow his advice, at least as far as I understood it. But that made me intolerant : for instance I found that your photos had too much anecdote and not enough composition, I only saw the drawbacks of the 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 format, the fact that it made you compose around the centre of the image, while neglecting what happened at the edges . Only much later their real significance dawned on me, and it was like a revelation. From then on, the people in your photos began to exist for me, I knew what they were thinking or going to do. Each of them seemed to emit a ray of energy, and your composition consisted in the interplayof these energies. Of course I should have grasped it much earlier.
blw
Well-known
Rubbish!
Take pictures! Take a lot of them!
If you like them? GREAT.
If others like them? EVEN BETTER.
If you & no one likes them? Well then.....
Take pictures! Take a lot of them!
If you like them? GREAT.
If others like them? EVEN BETTER.
If you & no one likes them? Well then.....
phatnev
Well-known
Screw the Leica M thing, I could care less, I just posted that so the mods wouldnt get mad. What about the famous Doisneau shot the sold for almost a quarter of a million dollars, being staged. That just takes the magic out of it completely for me, I dunno, I feel like I've been struck by a train of sh*t
blw
Well-known
If I could sell any shot I've taken- staged or not- for 250grand....you can belive I would do it and not look back.
The point is whether YOU enjoy what you shoot. Neither you- nor I- have any control whatsoever whether anyone else likes the photos we shoot. Whether you like it or not is all that is up to you.
The point is whether YOU enjoy what you shoot. Neither you- nor I- have any control whatsoever whether anyone else likes the photos we shoot. Whether you like it or not is all that is up to you.
-kk-
Established
blw said:
truer words have never been spoken. cheers!
phatnev
Well-known
Ha, honestly I would sell anything I've shot for that much money, but the whole appeal of HCB and that b/w Leica toting street prowling group is that they catch everything in that "decisive moment", no?
amateriat
We're all light!
Startling? I think not: there's been so much ink and electrons spilt over Doisneau's "candid" shots that my mind's eye glazed over on the subject a decade ago. Doesn't depreciate my interest in the images themselves, though.
I worry somewhat more about PJs and their channeled-chopped-n'-Photoshopped "news" images flying under the radar of journalistic ethics (and news-chopper jockeys flying into each other because they're too damn absorbed in pursuit of a cosmically trivial event on the ground).
I worry somewhat more about PJs and their channeled-chopped-n'-Photoshopped "news" images flying under the radar of journalistic ethics (and news-chopper jockeys flying into each other because they're too damn absorbed in pursuit of a cosmically trivial event on the ground).
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
That seems to me to be a huge failure of aviation professionalism on the part of the pilots. It is their responsibility to maintain separation from other traffic (as well as from the ground and things sticking out of it). While I'm sure "target fixation" is a constant temptation it is their responsibility to resist that trap. If it means missing the shot, then so be it. More realistically, there should be a third crew member (who should almost certainly be a second pilot) with delegated responsibility for ensuring aviation requirements are met. But I'm sure cost restrictions of the false economy kind are the reason it wasn't done. (Helicopters are expensive, and expensive to operate. A second pilot's salary wouldn't increase the cost base that much).amateriat said:
...Mike
Ororaro
Well-known
Doisneau's work is so complete and perfect, my personal vaforite photographer by far, I don't mind the Hotel de Ville masterpiece being a reenactment.
He saw the moment, the angle, the vision. Asking the couple for another kiss is nothing next to seeing the scene happening.
Doisneau's body of work is so perfect that I just don't care if it wasn't a 100% candid. He's Picasso with a Camera.
He saw the moment, the angle, the vision. Asking the couple for another kiss is nothing next to seeing the scene happening.
Doisneau's body of work is so perfect that I just don't care if it wasn't a 100% candid. He's Picasso with a Camera.
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
a photo either communicates to an audience or it doesnt. Wether or not it is staged ultimately is irrelevant unless you are having a documentary competition in your little world or larger world. You can easily take 100 photographers and give them the assignment of directing two people to kiss for the sake of taking a photograph and quite possibly none of them could match the emotion in the original photo you cite. And someone else can take a candid snap in a park and match it without trying.
that photo didnt become super famous because it was candid (although some have that fantasy) it became super famous because it touched many many many people who saw it, most of which were not photographers, art snobs or ethics professors. Just people who saw a photo and were made to stop for an instant to react to it.
And what happens if that Doisneau quote is just him actually screwing with the press after a lifetime of having to answer the same dumb question over and over again by the media. What does that say about how you are judging art for yourself? Maybe it is a candid after all...
maybe its just a photograph and you just like it or you dont...
that photo didnt become super famous because it was candid (although some have that fantasy) it became super famous because it touched many many many people who saw it, most of which were not photographers, art snobs or ethics professors. Just people who saw a photo and were made to stop for an instant to react to it.
And what happens if that Doisneau quote is just him actually screwing with the press after a lifetime of having to answer the same dumb question over and over again by the media. What does that say about how you are judging art for yourself? Maybe it is a candid after all...
maybe its just a photograph and you just like it or you dont...
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
The "Mona Lisa" we see today was also a retake...hmmm...
Vics
Veteran
phatnev said:
This story's been out in the open for a long time. Face it. Doisneau was a commercial photographer. He did lots of advertising stuff. He was neverlheless a WONDERFUL photographer. And that image is one of his best! I love his Rollei pictures best, because once he got his Nikon kit, his stuff looked pretty much like everyone else's. He was one of the greats! I think we should enjoy his work on it's own merits.
Vic
Tuolumne
Veteran
Could someone post a link to the "kissing" photo?
Thanks,
/T
Thanks,
/T
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Ducky
Well-known
Just google Robert Doisneau. It's one of the first link they give you.
phatnev
Well-known
I dont doubt him being one the of the greatest, but I lost alot of respect for him upon finding this out. HCB caught the moment, Doisneau missed it, and then paid people to renact it.
einolu
Well-known
ugh, not this again
phatnev
Well-known
nikon_sam said:
And your link for validatoin? I know there's a fake David where the original once stood. But AFAIK the Mona Lisa thingis a crock of ****
