tmfabian
I met a man once...
The motion picture industry still uses film, why shouldn't you?
Buyout a film maker and produce the product under the leica name and rebuild the film photography world. Digital is past its hoo ha stage and is already getting the shaft from advertising agencies saying, yeah digital was fun for a while but we want real photographs again.
Buyout a film maker and produce the product under the leica name and rebuild the film photography world. Digital is past its hoo ha stage and is already getting the shaft from advertising agencies saying, yeah digital was fun for a while but we want real photographs again.
literiter
Well-known
tmfabian said:
I appreciate what you are saying. I was not aware that ad agencies were giving digital the shaft. (I'm not sorry about this!) Digital seems to be branching the craft in a new direction, perhaps creating something entirely new. It will be exciting, challenging and quite marvelous in it's own way.....but I won't be going there. I don't need to.
The thing that annoys me, where I am, is many labs (all labs now?) print film by scanning the negs and then printing the output. I've seen some really crappy work from these processes. I have my own traditional B&W darkroom but I think printing in traditional color will be a challenge I will have to undertake in the future.
I have compared work done from the same slide done recently to work done 10 years ago and the older stuff wins hands down.
"Rebuild the film photography world" seems like a sensible mantra. I wanna see Ilfochrome back and/or someone who make good sharp prints from my negs and slides.
Uncle Bill
Well-known
If I am in charge of the Marketing at Leica
If I am in charge of the Marketing at Leica
I would advocate a Marketing Public Relations campaign:
I would before doing anything conduct a PEST and SWOT analysis of Leica's photography related business (including the M's and R's)
PEST stands for:
Political
Economic
Social
and Technological
Swot
Strengthes
Weaknesses
Opportunities
and threats.
I would mirror the call for a high quality entry level product most likely it will have to be digital and I would leverage the relationship with Panasonic on that one.
I played with my brother's R4 kit last Summer and I was blown away at the quality of the lenses. Leica can make money on their SLR lenses by introducing them in the Nikon F mount, Canon EOS, and Pentax K. Zeiss is doing it and since Nikon is going full frame with the D3 and Canon has the 5D. Might as well leverage the DSLR and film SLR users as well.
I would keep the M bodies as the top of the line of the line aspirational product but maybe introduced a striped down model at perhaps $2500 USD as opposed at the current $3500 USD (Aprox.).
I have not seen any print advertising on this side of the pond and honestly, Leica can't afford it. I would focus my energies on the internet with online communities like this, I really like the idea of an online Leica Academy, make it open to all, you want to gain new life long Leica customers not shoo them away. I really like the idea of competitions catering to students and customers and have a M7 starter kit as the prize. Coupled with that, get some articles written in the right publications. I wonder how the recent article from the New Yorker impacted Leica USA's bottom line.
I would also set up a massive online gallery where Leica Customers can post their photos tied to the corporate website.
The next part would be to put together an award winning marketing communications campaign getting the Leica story out there. Answer why are they great cameras, why photographers lust after them and address the cost.
I would hire a top tier Communications firm like Porter Novelli or Hill and Knowlton to pull it off, but only after doing your background research on the state of the market and who you want to reach. Of course you want to evaluate and adjust the message accordingly.
If I am in charge of the Marketing at Leica
I would advocate a Marketing Public Relations campaign:
I would before doing anything conduct a PEST and SWOT analysis of Leica's photography related business (including the M's and R's)
PEST stands for:
Political
Economic
Social
and Technological
Swot
Strengthes
Weaknesses
Opportunities
and threats.
I would mirror the call for a high quality entry level product most likely it will have to be digital and I would leverage the relationship with Panasonic on that one.
I played with my brother's R4 kit last Summer and I was blown away at the quality of the lenses. Leica can make money on their SLR lenses by introducing them in the Nikon F mount, Canon EOS, and Pentax K. Zeiss is doing it and since Nikon is going full frame with the D3 and Canon has the 5D. Might as well leverage the DSLR and film SLR users as well.
I would keep the M bodies as the top of the line of the line aspirational product but maybe introduced a striped down model at perhaps $2500 USD as opposed at the current $3500 USD (Aprox.).
I have not seen any print advertising on this side of the pond and honestly, Leica can't afford it. I would focus my energies on the internet with online communities like this, I really like the idea of an online Leica Academy, make it open to all, you want to gain new life long Leica customers not shoo them away. I really like the idea of competitions catering to students and customers and have a M7 starter kit as the prize. Coupled with that, get some articles written in the right publications. I wonder how the recent article from the New Yorker impacted Leica USA's bottom line.
I would also set up a massive online gallery where Leica Customers can post their photos tied to the corporate website.
The next part would be to put together an award winning marketing communications campaign getting the Leica story out there. Answer why are they great cameras, why photographers lust after them and address the cost.
I would hire a top tier Communications firm like Porter Novelli or Hill and Knowlton to pull it off, but only after doing your background research on the state of the market and who you want to reach. Of course you want to evaluate and adjust the message accordingly.
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Uncle Bill
Well-known
tmfabian said:
Neat idea, you don't even have to buy out a film company, re-brand an existing emulsion/
BillBingham2
Registered User
I would bet you could do that for a part of Kodak. Perhaps you have Kodak develop new emulsions and you produce in the China or Brazil.
I've been saying for a long time, Leica's strenght is it's glass. They should be bring out every lens they have in the R system in 4/3s NOW. Canon and Nikon would not be a bad idea, but I'm not sure the licensing costs fof full featured lenses. This adapter stuff is for the birds and not something rebuild a company on. With Nikon you could do an old AIs mount that should be past the point of licensing.
I agree with the idea of a digital CL (say $2000 USD) would sell like hot cakes. I'm sure some would say it will suck away some of the M8 market but they are wrong. It will stop ZI from coming out with something, eat away at the used R-D1 market perhaps.
Leverage the name to the well off consumers with a product that keep the name reasonably untarnished.
B2
I've been saying for a long time, Leica's strenght is it's glass. They should be bring out every lens they have in the R system in 4/3s NOW. Canon and Nikon would not be a bad idea, but I'm not sure the licensing costs fof full featured lenses. This adapter stuff is for the birds and not something rebuild a company on. With Nikon you could do an old AIs mount that should be past the point of licensing.
I agree with the idea of a digital CL (say $2000 USD) would sell like hot cakes. I'm sure some would say it will suck away some of the M8 market but they are wrong. It will stop ZI from coming out with something, eat away at the used R-D1 market perhaps.
Leverage the name to the well off consumers with a product that keep the name reasonably untarnished.
B2
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
One Word:
REBATE
Dave
REBATE
Dave
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I was thinking more along the lines of: PERMANENT LENDINGdcsang said:
They already give out expensive kits to "famous" people, and most of them hardly ever use them, except as jewelry (which to the mente populi is more proof that that's all Leica is).
I say they give 35mm Summicron ASPHs to those who already have a 35mm ZM Biogon, and would rather have a 35mm Summicron.
Use those pictures as advertisement.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Gabriel M.A. said:I say they give 35mm Summicron ASPHs to those who already have a 35mm ZM Biogon, and would rather have a 35mm Summicron.
Use those pictures as advertisement.
Gabe.. I'm right there with ya on that one
Biogon Owner,
Dave
eli griggs
Well-known
I think Leica needs to make a stronger connection with the everyday film photography community in general, without regard to what they're shooting now.
If Leica could partner with a company like Ilford, which is dedicated to continuing film photography, they could do a lot together to promote film photography and keep their product out front and visible to those people who enjoy traditional photography.
Joint workshops using Ilford products, Leica contests for photographs to be used on Ilford packaging and an on-line news letter that shows/educateds on film and digital cameras being used for many types of photography could bring in new users by showing these cameras are for not only for movie stars and the rich.
Leica should re-embrace those products discontinued long ago and include the Barnack and early M products in current publications and on-line discussions, showing work by those of use who still create with these 'classics'.
If part of the allure of a Leica is its' timelessness, then ignoring all those cameras and lenses that built the image and much of the history of 35mm photography is short sighted. Many people who have owned older Leica kit go on to buy new Leica cameras and lenses.
Leica might also consider going so far as a Q&A section in an on-line news letter on getting the most out of non-Leica lenses, etc with both old and new kit, with lots of space for contributions and "how too's" from users.
Eli
If Leica could partner with a company like Ilford, which is dedicated to continuing film photography, they could do a lot together to promote film photography and keep their product out front and visible to those people who enjoy traditional photography.
Joint workshops using Ilford products, Leica contests for photographs to be used on Ilford packaging and an on-line news letter that shows/educateds on film and digital cameras being used for many types of photography could bring in new users by showing these cameras are for not only for movie stars and the rich.
Leica should re-embrace those products discontinued long ago and include the Barnack and early M products in current publications and on-line discussions, showing work by those of use who still create with these 'classics'.
If part of the allure of a Leica is its' timelessness, then ignoring all those cameras and lenses that built the image and much of the history of 35mm photography is short sighted. Many people who have owned older Leica kit go on to buy new Leica cameras and lenses.
Leica might also consider going so far as a Q&A section in an on-line news letter on getting the most out of non-Leica lenses, etc with both old and new kit, with lots of space for contributions and "how too's" from users.
Eli
otaku
Established
Few people seem to know leica even exists and if they do only vaguely (and usually older folks) the panasonic partnership helps some and the various reviews etc online (of which I do some) but definetly they could use some more advertising. Maybe some banners online, some ads in more magazines and maybe even a tv ad or two (on photo related shows or something) they definetly should do more to promote their brand. Not to mention try and get their camera's in more stores! A digital cl would be nice indeed and making lenses usable on nikon/canon cameras would be a great move as well (hell how about on olympus?)
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LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Leica does`nt need advertisting, it needs better customer service, maybe a
Leica Historical Restoration and CLA service
(with prices that are competive, not unpayable) restore cameras, offer attractive CLA packages etc. (open up a center in America and Germany)
I think an online version of the Leica School or something in that direction would be great - but make it affordable, also run contests and give away cameras, giving away 20 or 30 M8`s a year won`t hurt them.....well fix them first
Yes, they need to fix the bugs with the M8 while that camera`s shortcomings have hurt the company more than helped it, (it could be the LAST rangefinder they ever make) and they are grossly overpriced and overated (in 5 years they will be selling for less than $2,000, *that`s if Leica is still in the Digital M business* if not then they will gain "cult" status like the IIIG and M3 have etc.)
They HONESTLY need to make a Retro Rangefinder a "new age" real film version of the M3 or M2, make it affordable (under $1,400 with a lens) and then promote real film again bring back real creativity to the art of Photography (joining up with Ilford would be a perfect idea, THAT WOULD SAVE BOTH COMPANIES!)
And last but not least (for everyone who wants it now) make a digiback for the M Leica`s, 8 to 10 mega pixel and really affordable (just at or under $2,000) that will get the dust off of a few hundred thousand cameras again........and get Leica`s name back out there, they need to put cameras back into the hands of REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS not just well known people
Tom
Leica Historical Restoration and CLA service
(with prices that are competive, not unpayable) restore cameras, offer attractive CLA packages etc. (open up a center in America and Germany)
I think an online version of the Leica School or something in that direction would be great - but make it affordable, also run contests and give away cameras, giving away 20 or 30 M8`s a year won`t hurt them.....well fix them first
Yes, they need to fix the bugs with the M8 while that camera`s shortcomings have hurt the company more than helped it, (it could be the LAST rangefinder they ever make) and they are grossly overpriced and overated (in 5 years they will be selling for less than $2,000, *that`s if Leica is still in the Digital M business* if not then they will gain "cult" status like the IIIG and M3 have etc.)
They HONESTLY need to make a Retro Rangefinder a "new age" real film version of the M3 or M2, make it affordable (under $1,400 with a lens) and then promote real film again bring back real creativity to the art of Photography (joining up with Ilford would be a perfect idea, THAT WOULD SAVE BOTH COMPANIES!)
And last but not least (for everyone who wants it now) make a digiback for the M Leica`s, 8 to 10 mega pixel and really affordable (just at or under $2,000) that will get the dust off of a few hundred thousand cameras again........and get Leica`s name back out there, they need to put cameras back into the hands of REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS not just well known people
Tom
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Edward in Chicago
Newbie
Partners and Ecosystem
Partners and Ecosystem
There are two issues in play - the platform (M) and the Leica Brand. First the platform - IMHO Leica has to get together with their allies - Zeiss and Cosina, and develop a coherent RF strategy. Others have pointed this out too. Bring in new partners (Kodak anyone?) and sell the concept of this type of equipment, its benefits, and photographic high-quality results. The success of small P&S is strong evidence of interest. I have a Canon G7 and G9 too and would love a "CL" M version of same. There's a real market out there for this.
As for Leica itself - I thought it was revealing that their web site talks about "returning to their roots' and focusing (pun) on lenses as "core competency". True statement. I'd prefer that every year or two I had another M camera choice to take advantage of these golden years of rapid improvement. Love the M8 but I just know its going to be weak competitively - hence the lenses direction. I just don't think they can make new cameras to keep up with the competition. Lenses yes, cameras, no. They could lose the battle on cameras and win on lenses.
The long term reality is that cameras are evolving quickly to become little computers, with great optics in front of them. Shutters, mirrors, single instance views are all going to disappear. The paradigm is your 847 megapixal, f1.8, live-view, full video, eyeball. Just so happens that Leica makes a better lens than even that.
Partners and Ecosystem
There are two issues in play - the platform (M) and the Leica Brand. First the platform - IMHO Leica has to get together with their allies - Zeiss and Cosina, and develop a coherent RF strategy. Others have pointed this out too. Bring in new partners (Kodak anyone?) and sell the concept of this type of equipment, its benefits, and photographic high-quality results. The success of small P&S is strong evidence of interest. I have a Canon G7 and G9 too and would love a "CL" M version of same. There's a real market out there for this.
As for Leica itself - I thought it was revealing that their web site talks about "returning to their roots' and focusing (pun) on lenses as "core competency". True statement. I'd prefer that every year or two I had another M camera choice to take advantage of these golden years of rapid improvement. Love the M8 but I just know its going to be weak competitively - hence the lenses direction. I just don't think they can make new cameras to keep up with the competition. Lenses yes, cameras, no. They could lose the battle on cameras and win on lenses.
The long term reality is that cameras are evolving quickly to become little computers, with great optics in front of them. Shutters, mirrors, single instance views are all going to disappear. The paradigm is your 847 megapixal, f1.8, live-view, full video, eyeball. Just so happens that Leica makes a better lens than even that.
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aizan
Veteran
celebrity endorsement possibilities:
in real life:
brad pitt
scarlett johansson
john mayer
seal
jamie lee curtis
dennis hopper
spike jonze
brendan fraser
matt damon
ben folds
only in the movies?:
jennifer connelly
julia roberts
sofia coppola
in real life:
brad pitt
scarlett johansson
john mayer
seal
jamie lee curtis
dennis hopper
spike jonze
brendan fraser
matt damon
ben folds
only in the movies?:
jennifer connelly
julia roberts
sofia coppola
parsec1
parsec1
For some make a Leica sticker for people to slap on their plastic box brownies to inflate their egos..... or as one individual said to me whilst parading his plastic whatever with a 5mm to 5000mm zoom sticking 5 feet out of his gut (I was USING 2 M6s with the seperate finder for the 21mm on one)......... "Wow thats a couple of real oldies you got there".
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Uncle Bill
Well-known
aizan said:
I would focus on celebrity endorsements, with musicians and actors that have a passion for photography, didn't Drew Barrymore go on one of the late night talk shows and talk about her passion for film photography? I would add her to the list. Also Goran Visnic (sp?) of ER would be another canidate, I think he shoots with a M7.
emraphoto
Veteran
"Leica does`nt need advertisting, it needs better customer service,"
amen
leica should take any advertising budget they have and sink it all into bringing their repair centers up to speed and totally revamp their aproach to customer service...
amen
leica should take any advertising budget they have and sink it all into bringing their repair centers up to speed and totally revamp their aproach to customer service...
BNF
Established
Advertising isn't the answer for Leica. They should concentrate on getting their house in order first - and it looks like they are trying to do that with the Summarit range, the M8 and custom tailored offerings. I just hope that Mr. Lee, with his high volume - generic big box experience, does not take the company downmarket.
How many more owners does the company need? How many has it been this decade? 3? 4? And, each time, the death bell was close to ringing.
(I've only every received first rate service and advice when dealing with Leica in Solms, where I bought 2 R lenses direct, where they restored an ancient 'cron - as well as great service with Leica Switzerland.)
A celebrity endorsement would lessen the perceived value to me, without question. They already use well respected photographic artists in company literature and that is a far better, far more convincing marketing tool than some.... tool like a movie star.
Leica is in a tough spot with the Euro on top of all of their other survival problems. At least, finally it has been admitted: “I believe that for every euro we make in sales, the market does four euros of business,” Lee said. Now, if they could enter that market..... factory occasion restorations with a warranty on a large scale.... ditto for bodies...
How many more owners does the company need? How many has it been this decade? 3? 4? And, each time, the death bell was close to ringing.
(I've only every received first rate service and advice when dealing with Leica in Solms, where I bought 2 R lenses direct, where they restored an ancient 'cron - as well as great service with Leica Switzerland.)
A celebrity endorsement would lessen the perceived value to me, without question. They already use well respected photographic artists in company literature and that is a far better, far more convincing marketing tool than some.... tool like a movie star.
Leica is in a tough spot with the Euro on top of all of their other survival problems. At least, finally it has been admitted: “I believe that for every euro we make in sales, the market does four euros of business,” Lee said. Now, if they could enter that market..... factory occasion restorations with a warranty on a large scale.... ditto for bodies...
AlanG
Alan Goldstein
They could start by showing proof in ads that their lenses are so good that they will make your photos much better. This could at least partially help justify the very high price of buying an M8 plus a few lenses.
For instance it should be pretty easy to show in comparison photos why using a 50mm F2 Summicron is worth 20 times the price of using a 50mm 1.8 Canon shouldn't it????
On second thought. Maybe this isn't such a good idea.
For instance it should be pretty easy to show in comparison photos why using a 50mm F2 Summicron is worth 20 times the price of using a 50mm 1.8 Canon shouldn't it????
On second thought. Maybe this isn't such a good idea.
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Juno
Rangefinder shooter
Give it to the shareholders and shut up shop.
kevin m
Veteran
Tee hee! That's funny.
[sarcasm] You know the internet is useless for showing photos, right? Only fiber-based printing counts! And besides, if you own Leica lenses, then you'll know. But only if you bought new, not used. And if you already own, or are considering the purchase of a third party lens from no-name outfits like Zeiss, Konica, Canon, Nikon or Cosina, then your opinion doesn't count, either. Leica lenses produce results that simply can't be measured by any objective standard, only recognized by the pure soul of one who pays full retail. [/sarcasm]
I think that about sums up some of the more questionable reasoning I've heard on this forum.