ferider
Veteran
I think we agree, Bill, although I said revenue, not profit. I would assume
that the Panasonic collaboration brings in as much money as the M line,
but I don't know for sure.
I am a typical customer, and so is my wife who uses an LZ30.
But we don't really know where Leica is going, as consumers,
Nikon, Canon, Sony, etc brands seem much clearer.
At RFF we are biased, naturally things revolve around the M line.
Not sure that the M line is really as important in the Leica business
plan.
We all assume that failure of the M8 implies failure of Leica. It could
also mean Leica just giving up on film cameras and RFs and focusing
on being a lens supplier, like Zeiss was on and off for a long time.
Whatever - as a consumer I feel totally disoriented, and was shocked
how new products were announced last year. Seems like totally
chaotic to me.
I like your idea about student classes, competitions, etc. This is
primarily brand creation. If Leica believes in RF, they should promote
the low end as well, e.g. hire Hayek and come out with a
new Leica CL (the Smart Leica
), less than US 400 including a 40mm,
exactly for the younger, newer customers. It could help making
film shooting "hip" again. Like VW selling a new Kaefer ....
Now that would be great.
Roland.
that the Panasonic collaboration brings in as much money as the M line,
but I don't know for sure.
I am a typical customer, and so is my wife who uses an LZ30.
But we don't really know where Leica is going, as consumers,
Nikon, Canon, Sony, etc brands seem much clearer.
At RFF we are biased, naturally things revolve around the M line.
Not sure that the M line is really as important in the Leica business
plan.
We all assume that failure of the M8 implies failure of Leica. It could
also mean Leica just giving up on film cameras and RFs and focusing
on being a lens supplier, like Zeiss was on and off for a long time.
Whatever - as a consumer I feel totally disoriented, and was shocked
how new products were announced last year. Seems like totally
chaotic to me.
I like your idea about student classes, competitions, etc. This is
primarily brand creation. If Leica believes in RF, they should promote
the low end as well, e.g. hire Hayek and come out with a
new Leica CL (the Smart Leica
), less than US 400 including a 40mm,exactly for the younger, newer customers. It could help making
film shooting "hip" again. Like VW selling a new Kaefer ....
Now that would be great.
Roland.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
I like the idea of a new CL. The CM could do, but does not have enough control nor interchangeable lenses. While they could go to Cosina, it think they need to stay with the unique size/configuration of the CL. Update the meter and shutter and I think you have the ultimate carry camera for young photographers.
I agree, Leica seem to be coming out with the shotgun approach. Lots of little stuff, hoping something will hit. I would love to see which lines provide what profit. I am hard pressed to say that I blame them, but there are niches they could hit hard and bring in some much needed cash without expending a lot of capital (e.g. 4/3s lenses).
I've always thought that if you can not do marketing in one medium well, don't do it. An add here or there in magizines will not keep the name where they need it. Perhaps the answer is the seed some cameras with high profile folks. Canon goes for the hot athetlic babes, Leica goes for the people who have made it. They have made it and now can afford a Leica, they must be out there.
I still think they should gut the R system and take the lenses and put them out in Canon, Nikon and 4/3s mounts. Stop all new work on bodies, focus on lenses.
B2 (;->
I agree, Leica seem to be coming out with the shotgun approach. Lots of little stuff, hoping something will hit. I would love to see which lines provide what profit. I am hard pressed to say that I blame them, but there are niches they could hit hard and bring in some much needed cash without expending a lot of capital (e.g. 4/3s lenses).
I've always thought that if you can not do marketing in one medium well, don't do it. An add here or there in magizines will not keep the name where they need it. Perhaps the answer is the seed some cameras with high profile folks. Canon goes for the hot athetlic babes, Leica goes for the people who have made it. They have made it and now can afford a Leica, they must be out there.
I still think they should gut the R system and take the lenses and put them out in Canon, Nikon and 4/3s mounts. Stop all new work on bodies, focus on lenses.
B2 (;->
Andy Aitken
Registered Loser
The only Leica ads I've seen are in my wife's Vanity Fair - between diamond encrusted watches and $5k handbags. I guess that would use up their entire budget for a start. The VF ads don't even say anything (all stlye and no content). I think this tells us all we need to know about their marketing strategy.
How could they improve on this? Well, look for better value for money for a start. I'm willing to bet they could get a run in the best photography magazine in the US and every EU country for the same price as a run in VF.
How could they improve on this? Well, look for better value for money for a start. I'm willing to bet they could get a run in the best photography magazine in the US and every EU country for the same price as a run in VF.
Nachkebia
Well-known
Magnum is the way to go I think, well they can always ask me to shoot promo
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Somewhat along those lines. I'd make an "entry-level" Tri-Elmar: 21, 35 and 50mm, f/2.8, with all-molded elements (they already do that for aspheric elements), and all-carbonite housing. Perhaps they could call it the Tri-Carbonar?Jon Claremont said:
bob cole
Well-known
How can Leica best spend its ad budget? [2]
How can Leica best spend its ad budget? [2]
After I made a few suggestions the other day, I'd like to propose a different approach:
A 12-month, interest-free deal -- strictly for the M-8 because it's so expensive --along the lines of the Bose radio and Home Shopping.
Assuming a retail price for the M-8 of, say, $4,999 usd, you might pay $1,000 down and get 12 months to pay the $3,999 balance at the rate of $333.25usd..
each month.
As an added attraction, Leica might throw in a small gift, like a T-shirt, a baseball cap, a key ring, a special M-8 owner's pin, a jacket, a belt buckle, each with the Leica logo...
How can Leica best spend its ad budget? [2]
After I made a few suggestions the other day, I'd like to propose a different approach:
A 12-month, interest-free deal -- strictly for the M-8 because it's so expensive --along the lines of the Bose radio and Home Shopping.
Assuming a retail price for the M-8 of, say, $4,999 usd, you might pay $1,000 down and get 12 months to pay the $3,999 balance at the rate of $333.25usd..
each month.
As an added attraction, Leica might throw in a small gift, like a T-shirt, a baseball cap, a key ring, a special M-8 owner's pin, a jacket, a belt buckle, each with the Leica logo...
Jason Sprenger
Well-known
Candid photography has the image of a rude endeavor. RF manufacturers would do well to position themselves as the civilized alternative.
I'd recommend a TV / Web ad stressing the strongest points of the M system, the quiet shutter, the compactness, and the lens quality.
Show a grubby, waddle-bottomed, wannabe paparazzi in a boonie-hat interrupting an elegant stage performance with the "bizzz-gazzit" of his DSLR rig that's bigger than a Speed Graphic, popping its blinding flash, whilst ordering people to act natural.
Then show the same scene as it should have been with a calm cool fellow lifting an M to his eye after moving the aperture to 1.4 and recording the performance w/o missing a beat, interspersing with a montage of fabulous shots.
The tag line could be something like "Capture the scene without making a scene."
I'd recommend a TV / Web ad stressing the strongest points of the M system, the quiet shutter, the compactness, and the lens quality.
Show a grubby, waddle-bottomed, wannabe paparazzi in a boonie-hat interrupting an elegant stage performance with the "bizzz-gazzit" of his DSLR rig that's bigger than a Speed Graphic, popping its blinding flash, whilst ordering people to act natural.
Then show the same scene as it should have been with a calm cool fellow lifting an M to his eye after moving the aperture to 1.4 and recording the performance w/o missing a beat, interspersing with a montage of fabulous shots.
The tag line could be something like "Capture the scene without making a scene."
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
outforalaska
Member
Zen-shooter said:
I also agree with you strongly. My take is a bit offtopic from the preceeding quote, but Zen's ideas certainly helped me invision some of my own.
While it could be attributed to my youth and "spoiled" childhood; I can say I have often begun to like things in a most materialistic manner, often wanting something for the brand name (Prada, Salvatore Ferragamo, Ferrari [can't say I've had the pleasure of that one yet]). Fortunately I have come to appreciate the reason some "high end" brand names carry such a high price tag through quality, style, and craftsmanship. For me Leica is no different. Growing up on a hand-me-down Canon AE-1, I often pined for a Leica with the idea in mind that it is the best. My photographic interests rolled toward the aspects that Leicas strongly take hold and the real reasons to want a Leica caught up and ultimately surpassed the brand name desire.
I think, today, in the US, there is a large percentage of others that are very materialistic. It could also be argued, quite easily, that most people want digital cameras. Portraying the Leica M8 (maybe the M9 - w/ full frame sensor to combat online side-by-side comparisons to big Canon Dslr's) as the best money can buy, a sexy camera, and accompanied by the best optics; in my opinion, would be a good angle for today's Leica marketing. Think Victoria's Secret models, clean cut & young male photogs, etc using Leica M8's.
With a larger M8 income to the company, I don't think the tradition of film M's would need be dropped. Let's just hope they keep cameras like the MP around. While I hate to think that people would buy Leica's for the, "wow, a Leica!" factor; I think more people (than today) would begin to appreciate the superior quality of Leica products.
M
Magus
Guest
Post deleted by posters request
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Nikon gave cameras to some flickr photographers and then used those photos to promote the camera.
I don't think you can spend it more wisely than that, if you can pick the right people to use a product. I wouldn't let Julia Childs promote skating boards, and you wouldn't go to Tony Hawk as your first go-to guy for cutlery reviews.
My twopence.
I don't think you can spend it more wisely than that, if you can pick the right people to use a product. I wouldn't let Julia Childs promote skating boards, and you wouldn't go to Tony Hawk as your first go-to guy for cutlery reviews.
My twopence.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
THey need to make sure they have an ad in every elite photo-related magazine for starters.
EDUCATION. Leica needs to not just sell, but to EDUCATE the market why the Leica is the ICON of photo instruments and its place in photographic history.
PUBLISH. With its connections and resources publish some books that address the needs of the market beyond the gadgetry. Example: Ansel Adams made his success from his trilogy of educational books, not monlogues. He became famous as an educator.
EDUCATION. Leica needs to not just sell, but to EDUCATE the market why the Leica is the ICON of photo instruments and its place in photographic history.
PUBLISH. With its connections and resources publish some books that address the needs of the market beyond the gadgetry. Example: Ansel Adams made his success from his trilogy of educational books, not monlogues. He became famous as an educator.
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PlantedTao
Well-known
monochromejrnl said:
I think this is a very great suggestion...as others have stated they need to get affordable cameras out there to the masses, inexpensive P&S and/or low-end M's. Creating volume really puts your name out there, along with a slick add campaign (iPod).
As with Porsche, the more you see on the road (boxsters, Cayenne) the more you realize it is an affordable vehicle. Before it was a rarity to see a Porsche...now not so much. That is a good thing. It draws people in...and then once you get your customers attention you can start talking about the higher end models, etc.
I don't think they will succeed...CV landed a very deadly blow to Leica and is doing what Leica should have done long ago.
5:00 PM
It's a light machine
Leica had a damn good ad agency seven years ago
Leica had a damn good ad agency seven years ago
Take a look at this German TV spot for the M6 from 2000 (QuickTime):
http://www.leicapages.com/quicktime/M6ad.mpeg
I've been in marketing forever; this is a brilliant ad. In just 20 seconds you see individualism, precision, intimacy in the midst of a crowd, time standing still and the decisive moment. Reshoot this with updated cameras and run it on Discovery HD, BBC America and other slightly snooty cable networks. The web site will be overwhelmed.
That's the easy part.
Leica had a damn good ad agency seven years ago
Take a look at this German TV spot for the M6 from 2000 (QuickTime):
http://www.leicapages.com/quicktime/M6ad.mpeg
I've been in marketing forever; this is a brilliant ad. In just 20 seconds you see individualism, precision, intimacy in the midst of a crowd, time standing still and the decisive moment. Reshoot this with updated cameras and run it on Discovery HD, BBC America and other slightly snooty cable networks. The web site will be overwhelmed.
That's the easy part.
Vics
Veteran
Product placement in feature films and in the commercials of luxury cars. Get people asking, "What's that?" Everyone who knows about Leica wants one, so the thing to do is to increase the number of people who both know and want one.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
By hiring a good proofreader. I see frequent mistakes in their literature and pamphlets.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Have you seen a DB2 database ad except for shops that sell DB2 database stuff? Still, there are some sales. It would be foolish to lump it together with the XBox and Playstation market.Avotius said:
The market for Leica is more complex, specialized and paradoxical than that.
bob cole
Well-known
How can Leica Camera Best Spend its Ad Budget?
Ask yourself these questions:
Question: Who has lots of money for expensive stuff like a Leica?
Answer. Doctors, lawyers, dentists, pharmacists, Wall Street people, show-business people, politicians and rulers.
Question: What luxury stuff do they buy?
Answer: Patek Philippe and Rolex watches ; yachts, speedboats and sailboats; diamonds, pearls and other jewelry; real estate, homes and condos; around the world cruises; airplanes, helicopters and classic cars; Mercedes and BMW.
Question: where do these luxury sellers advertise?
Answer: Wherever it is, that's where Leica should advertise.
Tiger Woods advertises Tag Heur watches regularly in The New York Times...Years ago famous people advertised Rolex watches just about everywhere , from National Geographic to Paris Match.
How about world-famous people advertising Rolex?
Something like this for today's buyers [the second is from Luigi's site]:
Ask yourself these questions:
Question: Who has lots of money for expensive stuff like a Leica?
Answer. Doctors, lawyers, dentists, pharmacists, Wall Street people, show-business people, politicians and rulers.
Question: What luxury stuff do they buy?
Answer: Patek Philippe and Rolex watches ; yachts, speedboats and sailboats; diamonds, pearls and other jewelry; real estate, homes and condos; around the world cruises; airplanes, helicopters and classic cars; Mercedes and BMW.
Question: where do these luxury sellers advertise?
Answer: Wherever it is, that's where Leica should advertise.
Tiger Woods advertises Tag Heur watches regularly in The New York Times...Years ago famous people advertised Rolex watches just about everywhere , from National Geographic to Paris Match.
How about world-famous people advertising Rolex?
Something like this for today's buyers [the second is from Luigi's site]:
Attachments
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johnastovall
Light Hunter - RIP 2010
By putting that ad money to R&D to fix the IR problems of the M8 without external filters and coding of lenses .
All the ad's in the world won't convence me to buy one until it is a mature digital camera and not a bundle of "Kludges."
All the ad's in the world won't convence me to buy one until it is a mature digital camera and not a bundle of "Kludges."
Mohan
Established
I think leica was responsible for one of the best adverts I’ve come across in any medium, but I’ve only noticed it in one small camera shop. Simply Kordas legendary photo of Che Guevara with the tag line “How revolutionary can your camera be?” and the leica red dot.
My Dream savoir M would be a new cheapened and Asian made M2, perhaps made from alloy with an M4 style rewind and a meter, sold as a kit with a lens rather like the CV 35 2.5 Pancake II, perhaps it could be packaged with 5 or 10 rolls of Tri-X and a small book (maybe with Magnums involvement) chronicling some of the great photos taken with M’s, it would need to be priced at around $1000 with its main competition being the “Prosumer” DSLR’s (D200, Eos 30D) and the target market being artsy but affluent 20-30 something’s, who must be a large proportion of DSLR buyers and also the crowd who fell for the Lomo thing, rather like Lomo it should be marketed as a tool too carry everywhere and create lo-fi Black & white shots, things that DSLRs suck at. Unfortunately it should also be marketed as a fashion statement and symbol of your taste and creativity, rather like a Macbook Pro.
Black and white film rather like vinyl should become kind of a counter culture thing for younger people. I grew up with CD’s and Mp3’s but now most contemporary music I buy is new and on vinyl (much of it is not available on CD)
My Dream savoir M would be a new cheapened and Asian made M2, perhaps made from alloy with an M4 style rewind and a meter, sold as a kit with a lens rather like the CV 35 2.5 Pancake II, perhaps it could be packaged with 5 or 10 rolls of Tri-X and a small book (maybe with Magnums involvement) chronicling some of the great photos taken with M’s, it would need to be priced at around $1000 with its main competition being the “Prosumer” DSLR’s (D200, Eos 30D) and the target market being artsy but affluent 20-30 something’s, who must be a large proportion of DSLR buyers and also the crowd who fell for the Lomo thing, rather like Lomo it should be marketed as a tool too carry everywhere and create lo-fi Black & white shots, things that DSLRs suck at. Unfortunately it should also be marketed as a fashion statement and symbol of your taste and creativity, rather like a Macbook Pro.
Black and white film rather like vinyl should become kind of a counter culture thing for younger people. I grew up with CD’s and Mp3’s but now most contemporary music I buy is new and on vinyl (much of it is not available on CD)