sepiareverb
genius and moron
Something along the lines of the Apple 'Think Different' campaign.
Plenty of Leica stars to choose from.
Plenty of Leica stars to choose from.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
How about more of Leica's taking credit for pictures that great photographers took ("My Hands"). Or maybe more 19th-Century Romanticist stuff about how the process is more important than the result.
Actually, the only good advert I have seen for an M8 was the small Pelican case of neglected Leica lenses I had in the bottom of my closet.
Actually, the only good advert I have seen for an M8 was the small Pelican case of neglected Leica lenses I had in the bottom of my closet.
CameraQuest said:
the problem with the James Dean shot
is that he is using a Canon RF
note the squared body
Stephen
is that he is using a Canon RF
note the squared body
Stephen
bob cole said:
mw_uio
Well-known
My thoughts are this, Leica needs to be in a few duty free world class airports around the world. Like London, Frankfurt, Berlin, Paris, Moscow, Dubai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, LAX, JFK, too name a few. Through these channels of distribution, this would bring past users and new users to the Leica brand.
Cheers
MArk
Quito, EC
Cheers
MArk
Quito, EC
MikeCassidy
Leica M3
By giving me a MP, M8 and some lenses and have me walk around NYC taking pictures; in and out of Conde Nast and the ICP with it hang off my neck.
MikeCassidy
Leica M3
I don't remember seeing Leica ads anywhere.
How about advertsing in: Conde Nast Traveler [highest demographics of any publication; we just ran a photo contest]; Vogue; GQ; in other words high end consumer magazines. Just don't sell to camera geeks. The M8 can be used by non-camera geeks. The MP would probably do better to market just us geeks.
How about advertsing in: Conde Nast Traveler [highest demographics of any publication; we just ran a photo contest]; Vogue; GQ; in other words high end consumer magazines. Just don't sell to camera geeks. The M8 can be used by non-camera geeks. The MP would probably do better to market just us geeks.
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Eh, pardon me for pointing the obvious (at least to me), Leica caters to high-end consumers and enthusiasts whom, while not immune to the effects of good advertisement, do not need a lot of them either. In fact, mass advertisement could be perceived as "cheapening" the "image" of Leica.
These are the people who would voluntarily and happily go through the "hoops" to monitor the catalogs and call stores for the camera prices. And they will educate their non-Leica friends. These people *are* Leica's living, breathing, talking ads. So being good to them is a good strategy for Leica.
So unless Leica is serious about getting to other markets, one that are more susceptible to mass ads, they do not need bigger ad budget.
OT but frankly, Cosina could use more ads, their cameras are intended for enthusiasts who are serious about RF photography who may not be Leica's target audience. I'd love to see a well shot Bessa ad in Popular Photography just to relieve my eyes from the endless Canon DSLR ads.
These are the people who would voluntarily and happily go through the "hoops" to monitor the catalogs and call stores for the camera prices. And they will educate their non-Leica friends. These people *are* Leica's living, breathing, talking ads. So being good to them is a good strategy for Leica.
So unless Leica is serious about getting to other markets, one that are more susceptible to mass ads, they do not need bigger ad budget.
OT but frankly, Cosina could use more ads, their cameras are intended for enthusiasts who are serious about RF photography who may not be Leica's target audience. I'd love to see a well shot Bessa ad in Popular Photography just to relieve my eyes from the endless Canon DSLR ads.
Eric T
Well-known
Hire Scarlett Johanssen as your spokesperson in ads posted on You Tube.
She is a Leica user and may be interested.
Also, I agree with Jon. Follow the Apple model. See if you can set up a small Leica booth in the largest Apple stores. Use Leicas to show the benefits of Apple's Aperture.
Also, following Apple's lead, stay away from a product line that cheapens the brand. That is, avoid the digital P&S market. it cheapens the brand and Leica won't be able to compete there anyway.
Eric
She is a Leica user and may be interested.
Also, I agree with Jon. Follow the Apple model. See if you can set up a small Leica booth in the largest Apple stores. Use Leicas to show the benefits of Apple's Aperture.
Also, following Apple's lead, stay away from a product line that cheapens the brand. That is, avoid the digital P&S market. it cheapens the brand and Leica won't be able to compete there anyway.
Eric
zidar
Newbie
One word: alcohol
One word: alcohol
Lots of booze at wild parties on the French Riviera. Topless French high school girls hanging around the beach....that's how to sell me a camera.
Zidar
Alaska
One word: alcohol
Lots of booze at wild parties on the French Riviera. Topless French high school girls hanging around the beach....that's how to sell me a camera.
Zidar
Alaska
zidar
Newbie
Now for a serious answer:
Now for a serious answer:
Leica has a superior product, but do they ever explain why? Erwin Puts does, but Leica sure doesn't. Part of the problem is that so few Krauts speak English well. That's a barrier. Until I started reading Puts, I didn't understand a lot of the reasons why Leicas cost so much. Also, I didn't understand what issues were taken into consideration in designing and building lenses. I've been using the same M3 since 1965, most of that time as a working pro photographer. I can look on my light table and the Leica transparencies will jump right up at me. I love my Canon gear, but the images are not as good.
Somebody up above mentions the Apple "Think different" campaign. Well, most of the images they used in that campaign were shot with Leicas. The famous Che Guevara shot is also mentioned. Leica should be using these images, explaining why the photographers chose Leica.
I hang out in gun stores a lot and hunters all across the board know Leitz binoculars are superior. Leitz has succeeded in that market.
Zidar
Now for a serious answer:
Leica has a superior product, but do they ever explain why? Erwin Puts does, but Leica sure doesn't. Part of the problem is that so few Krauts speak English well. That's a barrier. Until I started reading Puts, I didn't understand a lot of the reasons why Leicas cost so much. Also, I didn't understand what issues were taken into consideration in designing and building lenses. I've been using the same M3 since 1965, most of that time as a working pro photographer. I can look on my light table and the Leica transparencies will jump right up at me. I love my Canon gear, but the images are not as good.
Somebody up above mentions the Apple "Think different" campaign. Well, most of the images they used in that campaign were shot with Leicas. The famous Che Guevara shot is also mentioned. Leica should be using these images, explaining why the photographers chose Leica.
I hang out in gun stores a lot and hunters all across the board know Leitz binoculars are superior. Leitz has succeeded in that market.
Zidar
R
RML
Guest
Zidar, do you kind dropping the disparaging "Kraut"? It's really very offensive.
Further, I don't know how many Germans you've met but my experience is that many Germans actually speak pretty decent English. Much better than most English speakers speak/understand German.
Puts doesn't explain anything about why Leicas are expensive, and even if he does, it won't make any difference in the number of sales. Leica is still riding the wave of fame it enjoyed decades ago, but fails to understand that that wave has long run out. There are very very few people these days who know the Leica brand or what they sell.
Leica needs to reconsider its market position. Perhaps they should start selling much cheaper cameras (those digicams they sell aren't cheap compared to the offerings of other big brands). Or they should start create an aura around themselves (à la Apple) to justify the high prices. Problem will be that Leica can never come up with new designs in the same cycle as Apple does. And while people are willing to pay a premium to be an early adopter (sp?), they are not so keen to do so for the same product 1-2 years down the road.
Leica is in a pickle as they have a great product but don't have (or don't want to free) the resources to market it properly. They also have no loyal customer basis to build upon (most Leica users use 2nd hand bodies and lenses, and are not nearly as loyal as Apple users). Their products also face huge competition, and where Canon and Nikon have high prices pro gear with longer renewal cycles, they also have huge volumes of low and medium priced products with renewal cycles of 6-12 months. Leica only has the high priced segment and nothing else where they can make the profits.
It's my prediction (or fear) that the M8 is about the last thing we'll see coming from Leica. maybe they can drag on for another 5-10 years but by then they'll either be finished or absorbed into a larger company. Seriously, how does Cosina Leica sound?
Further, I don't know how many Germans you've met but my experience is that many Germans actually speak pretty decent English. Much better than most English speakers speak/understand German.
Puts doesn't explain anything about why Leicas are expensive, and even if he does, it won't make any difference in the number of sales. Leica is still riding the wave of fame it enjoyed decades ago, but fails to understand that that wave has long run out. There are very very few people these days who know the Leica brand or what they sell.
Leica needs to reconsider its market position. Perhaps they should start selling much cheaper cameras (those digicams they sell aren't cheap compared to the offerings of other big brands). Or they should start create an aura around themselves (à la Apple) to justify the high prices. Problem will be that Leica can never come up with new designs in the same cycle as Apple does. And while people are willing to pay a premium to be an early adopter (sp?), they are not so keen to do so for the same product 1-2 years down the road.
Leica is in a pickle as they have a great product but don't have (or don't want to free) the resources to market it properly. They also have no loyal customer basis to build upon (most Leica users use 2nd hand bodies and lenses, and are not nearly as loyal as Apple users). Their products also face huge competition, and where Canon and Nikon have high prices pro gear with longer renewal cycles, they also have huge volumes of low and medium priced products with renewal cycles of 6-12 months. Leica only has the high priced segment and nothing else where they can make the profits.
It's my prediction (or fear) that the M8 is about the last thing we'll see coming from Leica. maybe they can drag on for another 5-10 years but by then they'll either be finished or absorbed into a larger company. Seriously, how does Cosina Leica sound?
zidar
Newbie
OK, from now on you're a wurst.
OK, from now on you're a wurst.
How's that?
The reason English speaking people don't speak German is because there's no reason to. Except for the literature. The reason Germans and Austrians don't speak English well is because they translate American TV into German. Mr. Ed became the horse who could talk, and he spoke German! In the wild west all those lonesome cowpokes spoke German! Actually, that's not such a stretch. Since 60% of the American population is of German ancestry, a lot of cowboys did speak German....my dad grew up speaking German! Back in the old days I used to love checking into my favorite hotel in Villach, Austria and switching on the TV to watch Die Strassen von San Francisco. Once Karl Malden, whose real name is Mladen Sekulovich, drove right past my house on Scott St.! I was sitting there in Austria with a mini-bar Gosser bier in my hand and there was my house! That's a great way to learn German, but pretty much a waste of time if you already know the language.
I'm not really concerned about offending Germans, or anybody else for that matter. What if I flipped out every time some Euro type said something rude about Americans? I wouldn't get much done, would I? I use German cameras and drive a German car, so relax.
Zidar
OK, from now on you're a wurst.
How's that?
The reason English speaking people don't speak German is because there's no reason to. Except for the literature. The reason Germans and Austrians don't speak English well is because they translate American TV into German. Mr. Ed became the horse who could talk, and he spoke German! In the wild west all those lonesome cowpokes spoke German! Actually, that's not such a stretch. Since 60% of the American population is of German ancestry, a lot of cowboys did speak German....my dad grew up speaking German! Back in the old days I used to love checking into my favorite hotel in Villach, Austria and switching on the TV to watch Die Strassen von San Francisco. Once Karl Malden, whose real name is Mladen Sekulovich, drove right past my house on Scott St.! I was sitting there in Austria with a mini-bar Gosser bier in my hand and there was my house! That's a great way to learn German, but pretty much a waste of time if you already know the language.
I'm not really concerned about offending Germans, or anybody else for that matter. What if I flipped out every time some Euro type said something rude about Americans? I wouldn't get much done, would I? I use German cameras and drive a German car, so relax.
Zidar
PetarDima
Well-known
I don't know what they will do with their business plans ... I don't care. Why?
Because they have have chance for over 50 years to do what they want.
Now, it 's digital era of photography ... I think that race for them is almost lost.
Compare M8 to Canon's 5D: 1. Price 2. Photography from camera. Answer( it's only me) is : Canon is winner! They can't tell: our cameras are photography tool
withiut compromise anymore - we sell you our cameras for 3000-4000$
- 0r Eur. - but you have tool for a lifetime!
Strange, I don't have film based Leica( let's say MP ) because of
one little problem : my pockets are empty
Because they have have chance for over 50 years to do what they want.
Now, it 's digital era of photography ... I think that race for them is almost lost.
Compare M8 to Canon's 5D: 1. Price 2. Photography from camera. Answer( it's only me) is : Canon is winner! They can't tell: our cameras are photography tool
withiut compromise anymore
- we sell you our cameras for 3000-4000$- 0r Eur. - but you have tool for a lifetime!
Strange, I don't have film based Leica( let's say MP
) because of one little problem : my pockets are empty
Gid
Well-known
I have seen quite a few Leica adverts since the release of the M8. Particularly recently referring to the M8 try out. Also the Leica red dot is prominent in all the Leica Premier dealer adverts in the photog press in the UK.
There have been very good suggestions already, particularly regarding bringing in new (young) photographers. Another good way to get your name around is web virals - a start up company I worked for did a lot of that to supplement its meagre marketing budget.
The key problem I see for Leica is their product set -
Their M line consists of three cameras - the MP, the M7 and the M8. Each of these are "top of the line" products with prices to match. There are no entry level products in this line. If they were to produce lower price alternatives, where would they compromise - function would be difficult because all of these cameras are already "basic". It would have to be materials and or manufacturing location. Now if they were to do this and produce products at say a price point around 50% of the current offerings, would they fly? You might get some of the Zeiss and CV owners jumping ship, but would you really get any "new" owners. Whatever we want to believe her at RFF, film isn't exactly a growth market, so their future probably is in digital. I personally believe that they need to consider building a lower priced M digital with auto focus a la Contax G2. They would then remove one of the perceived barriers (no auto focus) whilst retaining the small form factor, great lenses and Leica heritage. This might be difficult for the dyed in the wool Leica aficionado to accept, but I don't see any other route. Certainly making their lenses more widely available would also help.
Their other digital cameras are all Panasonic clones and to be honest, why would you pay 50% for a red dot? I don't think this is enough of a differentiator in a tough market.
Just my two pennies worth.
There have been very good suggestions already, particularly regarding bringing in new (young) photographers. Another good way to get your name around is web virals - a start up company I worked for did a lot of that to supplement its meagre marketing budget.
The key problem I see for Leica is their product set -
Their M line consists of three cameras - the MP, the M7 and the M8. Each of these are "top of the line" products with prices to match. There are no entry level products in this line. If they were to produce lower price alternatives, where would they compromise - function would be difficult because all of these cameras are already "basic". It would have to be materials and or manufacturing location. Now if they were to do this and produce products at say a price point around 50% of the current offerings, would they fly? You might get some of the Zeiss and CV owners jumping ship, but would you really get any "new" owners. Whatever we want to believe her at RFF, film isn't exactly a growth market, so their future probably is in digital. I personally believe that they need to consider building a lower priced M digital with auto focus a la Contax G2. They would then remove one of the perceived barriers (no auto focus) whilst retaining the small form factor, great lenses and Leica heritage. This might be difficult for the dyed in the wool Leica aficionado to accept, but I don't see any other route. Certainly making their lenses more widely available would also help.
Their other digital cameras are all Panasonic clones and to be honest, why would you pay 50% for a red dot? I don't think this is enough of a differentiator in a tough market.
Just my two pennies worth.
PetarDima
Well-known
that's my point of view
you can by brand new DSLR+ Kit lens for 600 Euros, maybe cheaper ...
I believe that GREAT move for any RF camera maker will be digital RF with APS sensor under 1000 $/Eur... what is the price of SONY R1 at this moment? I could see many happy RF photographers with RF camera with fixed lens ... for start
jimmygcreative
brassing w/silver inside
I would like to add my retail and brand experience on this topic,
my idea would be to have certified used leicas for first time buyers to get them loyal to the brand. Then I would only sell the new cameras in brick and mortar stores and limited the number of stores that carry the brand, keeping the limited number of stores they could require the number of leicas on hand to be a greater volume and have the entire system on hand in all stores.
So when you walk into one of the chosen stores they have all the bodies the entire lens and a very high end point of purchase display package.
If the retail stores dont go for that, make a statement that might get world press to notice (pull all the new items from all retail locations (web too) and sell via leica website only! keep all the profit for the company!
anyone who wants a new leica has a computer...... leica.com shopping cart is a second away.
my idea would be to have certified used leicas for first time buyers to get them loyal to the brand. Then I would only sell the new cameras in brick and mortar stores and limited the number of stores that carry the brand, keeping the limited number of stores they could require the number of leicas on hand to be a greater volume and have the entire system on hand in all stores.
So when you walk into one of the chosen stores they have all the bodies the entire lens and a very high end point of purchase display package.
If the retail stores dont go for that, make a statement that might get world press to notice (pull all the new items from all retail locations (web too) and sell via leica website only! keep all the profit for the company!
anyone who wants a new leica has a computer...... leica.com shopping cart is a second away.
literiter
Well-known
I think Leica, at one time was an innovator. Their innovation was a very fine 35mm camera. They set a marvelous paradigm to which, some would say, has never been matched. Barnack was an innovator, likely more than a marketer.
Leica cameras, particularly the early "M" series, are really something special. Even those of us who have moved on to other tools love the camera. I certainly do.
Now we just have marketers at Leica, not really innovative people at that, by the looks of it. Leica must do something to match their initial creation. All they have really done is to make a digital camera look like a M rangefinder. Big deal.
Leica cameras, particularly the early "M" series, are really something special. Even those of us who have moved on to other tools love the camera. I certainly do.
Now we just have marketers at Leica, not really innovative people at that, by the looks of it. Leica must do something to match their initial creation. All they have really done is to make a digital camera look like a M rangefinder. Big deal.
georgef
Well-known
zidar said:
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
georgef
Well-known
I think no matter how much money LEICA spends on their marketing the fact remains the same: they only are producing a single camera they can really market.
Sure they produce P&S's, but they are equal or subpar to their competition; as a matter of fact, if you are not stuck on the red DOT you can get the same product from panasonic for much less.
Product, product, product! You can market a 4,500$ camera to death, but if the product is not sexy, well priced and relevant, you are, well :bang:
The ipod campaign worked because the product ROCKS! it is designed well, it is marketed to the masses and it is priced for the masses as well! LEICA gets one out of three here with the M8.
I hate to be the devils advocate, but many of the posts here are celebrating the very well deserving history of the company. However, if I am asked by a company to fork out probably the most cash for a body and new lens of any out there, you have to give me a better reason than a full page ad or a short and very abstract video.
Sorry, but I thought someone had to come out and say it:angel:
Sure they produce P&S's, but they are equal or subpar to their competition; as a matter of fact, if you are not stuck on the red DOT you can get the same product from panasonic for much less.
Product, product, product! You can market a 4,500$ camera to death, but if the product is not sexy, well priced and relevant, you are, well :bang:
The ipod campaign worked because the product ROCKS! it is designed well, it is marketed to the masses and it is priced for the masses as well! LEICA gets one out of three here with the M8.
I hate to be the devils advocate, but many of the posts here are celebrating the very well deserving history of the company. However, if I am asked by a company to fork out probably the most cash for a body and new lens of any out there, you have to give me a better reason than a full page ad or a short and very abstract video.
Sorry, but I thought someone had to come out and say it:angel:
literiter
Well-known
georgef said:
Yes, yes, yes!
When the first Leica was received it was an innovation, perhaps like the Ipod, their product "ROCKED". (I wonder what they said back then.)
I would like to see someone at Leica take the initiative and do something really terrific, maybe get over this M8 stuff. I think the M8 could be the ruin of them, and this would be a real shame.