Who... Digital BESSA R5

Who... Digital BESSA R5

  • Digital Bessa R-5 ($1000-$2000)

    Votes: 494 60.4%

  • Epson R-D2 ($1000-$2000)

    Votes: 112 13.7%

  • Digital Zeiss Ikon ($3000-$4000)

    Votes: 159 19.4%

  • Leica M8 renewed ($5000-$5500)

    Votes: 53 6.5%
  • Total voters
    818
I think I've decided not to buy a digital RF until and unless it's a full frame. If it's a Bessa, the price would need to be in the same ballpark as their existing models. I'm assuming it would accept existing lenses.
 
I still think that as the digital market gets saturated people are goingto look at differentiating themselves ala the Sigma DP1.

I could see a 4/3 fixed lens camera with a 12-50 lens that is f2.0 or even faster. I think the real problem with smaller sensors is that the lenses haven't gotten faster. When the lenses went from medium format to 35mm, the lenses got shorter and faster.

My G9 has a 7.4-44.4/F2.8-4.8, when it really should have a 6-25/f1.4-2.0 lens on it. If we can't get higher ISOs with smaller sensors, lets get faster lenses.

I don't know where that trade-off curve between lens speed and sensor size for a s/n ratio is.

Mark
 
Not voting because I have an R-D1 and it is all the digital RF that I need for now.

If I was a pro I would probably pop for one of the full-frame MF digitals (instead of a new BMW 330 - but what the heck with gas prices set to skyrocket I will be riding the Vespa everywhere soon enough anyway).

I like the idea of a 24x36 sensor with ISO12000 capability (so let's hope that ISO1600 - who really very often needs more with f1.4 lenses? - would no longer be noisy) in a body with all the "menu" functions on external buttons/switches, a battery indicator, a card capacity remaining indicator, and NO FREAKIN' LCD! Just think - no chimping!

- John
 
Those price brackets are insane.

Until some camera maker produces a digital rangefinder and sets out to market it with sufficient confidence that they produce enough to make the prices at least moderately competitive with DSLRs, there's no chance I'm lining up to buy. Even the most optimistic projection in the poll here puts the entry price at $500 more than I paid for my Nikon D40. With careful shopping, $500 could buy me a medium format Fuji rangefinder.
 
anselwannab said:
I still think that as the digital market gets saturated people are going to look at differentiating themselves ala the Sigma DP1.

I could see a 4/3 fixed lens camera with a 12-50 lens that is f2.0 or even faster. I think the real problem with smaller sensors is that the lenses haven't gotten faster. When the lenses went from medium format to 35mm, the lenses got shorter and faster.

Mark
Click to expand...

I've been rooting for the DP-1 with the hope that Olympus/Panasonic will follow with a 4/3rd fixed-lens camera.

The major road blocks that I see - each manufacturer's line ups tend to look like reissues of their past digital cameras and everyone wishing for an f/2.8 or faster 14mm'ish lens on a 4/3rds compact body will result in a bulky un-pocketable protrusion.

Whether the Sigma DP-1 finds a large enough following for the camera to recover its development costs remains to be seen. Its Fovecon sensor is effectively about 5 MP and neither the sensor or lens has image stabilization. The f/4 lens will be a deal breaker for many enthusiasts.

A Bessa RD successor based on the R4 series for around $1600 mark may be a better fit for me at this stage, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
A friend has lent me an E-Volt 500 w/ 14-40(?) kit lens. On manual how the hell do I set aperture and shutter speed? The UI is not intuitive, some of the buttons are tiny, yadda, yadda. Please, a D-RF with analog controls so I can just shoot pictures. :bang:
 
dreams, dreams, dreams...

dreams, dreams, dreams...

The 2008 started without any formal news about a new digital rangefinder.
In the web I found something related with Nikon planning to produce a digital rangefinder with a non Nikon S mount and without the Nikon name. Leica with a renewed M8, with a saphire eye finder, a new software, etc.
But nothing real by now, Zeiss Ikon, Epson and CV no signs about, nothing will appear in the escene this year???
Will be some surprise in Photokina this year?😕

Hopes and wishes that I still have!!! 😉
 
this is a fun thread, i have an observation. Digital camera users are always looking for the next better thing. there is really no such thing (except maybe the few rd1 or m8 users that have posted here) as a content digital camera user. having worked camera sales for 8 years at a really big camera store i can attest to this. people love to complain about the shortcomings of their 9 month old camera. sure, it was only 200 dollars, but now there is a far better-longer zoom-more megapixel 200 dollar model on the market. it makes perfect sense then that the the digital mentality should spill over to rangefinders and the m8 is too expensive, the rd1 is too obsolete. there must be something better that is on the verge of being announced any second now, in fact, when i'm done writing here i am going to click over to dpreview.com to see if it was announced today. right? have i hit the nail on the head here? i do think there will be more digital rangefinders in the future. I think it is naive to think that there won't be. i would love for it to be a cosina, i even suggested it to the folks on the cvug mailing list long before the rd1 came out and i got chased off the forum with pitchforks and torches. Ever since the canon 5d came out nikon was blasted for not having a full frame camera, and the company reps would always say there is no known plans, but now they do. it's fine for companies to keep their developments secret, but to the folks who are adamant that cosina is 100% not interested in digital, may not know the whole story. the epson rd1 has a lot of cosina inside it, was cosina 100% not interested in digital back in 2004 when that came out? or the year or two or three before that when it was in development? unless you are a technician working in the factory or r and d department, i just don't see how you can say for sure. maybe some of the folks on this forum do work for cosina, and i stand corrected and will keep my mouth shut. but i digress; back to my first comment, it is in our nature to want something new in the digital world to be right around the corner. the notion of a camera lasting you 20 years doesn't apply to digital.
 
Well the main problem with the RD-1 is that I think many of us rangefinder users want a camera that will be servicable for some time to come... Leica's pedigree has spoiled us... so we dont want a digital camera that is going to die and possibly not even be replaceable in a year or two.


That is one reason why so many of us are quite afraid of an RD-1. The hope is that at least with a company like Cosina, we would feel that a Digital RF would have the parts and service for many many years to come incase something did indeed happen to the camera, etc.
 
sitemistic said:
If you can make digital cameras of any kind, you're not thinking (except for Leica) a niche market <snip>
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.

sitemistic said:
Nikon and Canon's bread and butter isn't $8,000 pro cameras.
Click to expand...

See, those two look at a niche market...

Let me ask you ... before Cosina introduced the Bessa RFs, were you equally as sure that no one would introduce a new line of RFs, other than Leica that is?
 
sitemistic said:
Cosina targeted a niche market. Film rangefinders. My post made no reference to film rangefinders.

"If you can make digital cameras of any kind, you're not thinking (except for Leica) a niche market "

Looking at developing a digital camera, which could compete outside a niche market, unlike film cameras, why would Cosina take that digital product and limit its sales potential by putting it inside a rangefinder?
Click to expand...

Ok.. let's tell'em to produce a digital back for their cameras, and nothing more.. they will still sell lot of camera+backs..
(I know.. digital back is everyone's dream, and it'll probably never exists.. but let me dream)
Rob.
 
sitemistic said:
Cosina targeted a niche market. Film rangefinders. My post made no reference to film rangefinders.

"If you can make digital cameras of any kind, you're not thinking (except for Leica) a niche market "

Looking at developing a digital camera, which could compete outside a niche market, unlike film cameras, why would Cosina take that digital product and limit its sales potential by putting it inside a rangefinder?
Click to expand...

Why? Because rangefinders are niche! Mr. K is not about to compete in the digital SLR and digicam market.

A niche is a niche. And you didn't answer my question! 😛 :angel:
 
I don't think a lot of us thought about it, and "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" is perhaps an apt reaction. Anyway, I'm not predicting Cosina will make a digital RF, as it certainly is a different ball game than a film RF. What I am saying is that if any company were to do it (aside from a "full" frame-based Zeiss RF), it would be Cosina, and I would not bet any money at all against that happening. Mr. K seems to be very clever, both in terms of managing and optical company and as a pure businessman.

I personally think they main thing keeping him from doing it is that he just isn't interested in digital. But I'm willing to bet that people are talking to him about it.
 
I pretty much agree. The real RF cashflow right now is lenses, both CV & Zeiss. The R4 is also a contributor, since most of the R&D and production costs were previously sunk. Which is one reason I think there is a reasonable chance it will happen.
 
I doubt if COSINA has the knowhow to produce a digital Bessa soon. That's why they cooperated with Epson in the past. They do mechanical cameras and lenses, like LEICA, obviously with more modern tooling. Probably Cosina can survive with that stategy the next couple of years. That's the main goal in photoindustry: surviving between the giants.

Making a digital RF is much more than taking a mechanical camera and put a sensor and a viewing screen in. You both need hardware and software specialists to develop such thing.
The most revolutionary camera wouldn't need a rangefinder and a shutter anyway, but had a realtime viewing screen where to focus and lenses to change. We will see such a camera sooner or later, and then DSLR will be dead too. I wouldn't expect such a camera coming from Canon, Nikon or Sony, like GM or Ford will not develop a car driven by water... If it's Cosina who will build such a camera, I'm quite sure that Mr. K. will build it with different lens mounts, and Leica M is one of them.

have fun,
 
Sonnar2 said:
but had a realtime viewing screen where to focus and lenses to change. We will see such a camera sooner or later, and then DSLR will be dead too.
Click to expand...

What do you mean with this? I do not understand your point.. you mean that one should you the preview LCD to focus? To me it'll be a nightmare.. especially in situations like bright light or in a crowded place or even in a simple street photography shot.
Moreover how big would this screen have to be? Are you suggesting to go back to the TLRs style with no viewfinder? 😱

I don't think this will work.
Rob.
 
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