Peter_Jones
Well-known
Cool link - keep tabs on the Mrs 😉
My fellow criminals...
- Thread starter BillP
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bmattock
Veteran
Morca007 said:
Oh, please. If I see someone skulking around in the alley behind my house, you better believe I am going to call the police. If it is the neighbor looking for his lost Burmese python, then fine. If it is a photographer who thinks table scraps in ashcans are his next raison d'etre, again fine. If it is a bad person, my neighbors might be glad someone called instead of turning a blind eye.
Potential for abuse? Where?
bmattock
Veteran
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Silva Lining said:
Oh the industrial military complex, the one Eisenhower warned about, is still wanting to resurrect the star wars program.
and why not, lots of taxpayers dollars to be had.
as to if the SWP will work?
maybe it will work as good as NORAD & the air defence scramble to intercept those four hijacked planes . 😉
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sepiareverb
genius and moron
bmattock said:
If you own a car in VT the inspection sticker now has a chip in it so the police can ID the car electronically. I'd suppose this is in use elsewhere as well, we are rather backward when it comes to technology. We are also supposed to have 'smart' drivers licenses next go round also, so we can be identified while walking past the police car.
I'm all for fighting back when accosted, but any attempts to prevent it seem a waste of time. They are not looking out for our best interests anymore.
bmattock
Veteran
sepiareverb said:
I can't seem to find anything about this on the 'net. If you have a link, I'd like to see it. In Michigan, no inspections, so no inspection stickers.
No, that's not how they work. The so-called 'RealID Law' is designed to force all states to display standardized information on their licenses, to verify that the person applying for a license is legally in the country, and to report all DL data to a central federal computer database, in addition to having biometic features to make them tamper-resistant, such as fingerprints.
Not to mention the fact that there is no law in the US that says anyone has to carry ID of ANY KIND. No driver's license, no passport, nada. So it would not work so well for those who just don't drive - like just about everyone living in Manhattan or downtown San Francisco.
No chip inside, no broadcast to the police. See how this crap gets started? I'm not in favor of 'RealID', but let's at least get our fear accurate. This rumor-mongering booga-booga just paints any privacy advocate as a blithering idiot and conspiracy wackjob.
"They" never were. But making up boogey-men so we can a) hate them more or b) give up in disgust *is* a waste of time. Ridiculous.
sunsworth
Well-known
bmattock said:
Which is the crucks of the problem. If you can't define reasonable, and you have a police force that wants people to be questioned/arrested for behaving unreasonably, then anyone can be questioned. at any time for anything.
Joe
Established
I was confronted by a transit employee here for having a camera (because I had pointed it at the escalator). We got into an argument, then my train came. When I reached my destination, there were some cops standing on the street. I asked them about it. They told me they get hundreds of calls every day from people who think they are seeing suspicious behavior, all of it imagined, that there were so many calls that it didn't matter. It was the boy crying wolf exponentially and no practical way to investigate them(my words). They were friendly and nonchalant.
That night my power went out. I went to the window to see if the neighbors had power, and saw a building on fire. I picked up the phone to call 911 but it was dead. So I grabbed my camera and went to the alley to take pictures, I could hear the sirens coming. Then some cops came around the corner and man were they angry! They threatened to arrest me for "obstructing a police investigation". I took some more shots and then they really got mad. So I ran. It's weird, you always wonder why anyone would run from the cops, but when instinct kicks in you don't think.
The pictures came out awful. I hate them. I didn't even print most of them because they creep me out.
That night my power went out. I went to the window to see if the neighbors had power, and saw a building on fire. I picked up the phone to call 911 but it was dead. So I grabbed my camera and went to the alley to take pictures, I could hear the sirens coming. Then some cops came around the corner and man were they angry! They threatened to arrest me for "obstructing a police investigation". I took some more shots and then they really got mad. So I ran. It's weird, you always wonder why anyone would run from the cops, but when instinct kicks in you don't think.
The pictures came out awful. I hate them. I didn't even print most of them because they creep me out.
peterm1
Veteran
The previous Australian government (now consigned to the dustbin of history, thankfully) faithfully followed Bush like a lapdog as did Blair and instituted a "Be alert, not alarmed" campaign aimed similarly at counter terrorism efforts.
The previous Prime Minister was a master of wedge politics and spent much of his time trying to make Australians fearful of foreigners - intitally poor bloody refugees fleeing despotic regimes like the Taliban and then later fleeing warfare being fought in the name of truth, justice and the American way. But in reality the verbal attacks were directed at any foreigners with a dusky skin, foreign sounding names and who hailed from parts of the world that good conservative voting Australians knew had never been part of the British Empire. For him the Spetember 11 attacks were a God send. A free kick (an Australian football term) to help him scare the electorate some more and to win yet another election.
Many observers are now convinced that the delicate balancing act of getting citizens to be alert but not alarmed was a deliberate ploy to frighten people enough to convince them that only this government could stand between them and chaos, while not being so frightened that that actually stopped long enough to think.
Eventually they did stop and think of course and he and his fellow (I was going to say travellers, but that would be much too left wing for that conservative mob) so lets just say, MP's were unceremoniously dumped in one of the biggest landslides in Austrlalian electoral history. People had grown tired of the same old tired threats and warnings cynically being dredged up every time an election rolled around. And so, in the case of the PM - he lost his seat, only the second sitting PM to do so in the history of Australia's federation.
The Australian voting public may be slow to wake up to the fact that they are being taken for a ride, but eventually they do with predictable results.
Eventually my firends, the worm turns and it will turn too for politicians still trying this time worn tactic in the UK and USA.
So I am more cynical about these measures in the UK. I do not think they are a harbinger of a belated 1984. They are simply another government having a go at clinging to power by frightening the electorate. To their credit the new Australian government has recently thrown out a plan devised under the previous regime for an Austalian ID card - which no doubt would have made it essential to carry such ID. The older I get, the more I become a civil libertarian. I believe in the due process of law, the importance of an independent judiciary and the rule of law. And I am determined to do my little bit to kick the goddam asses of any government that tries to attack these fundamental pillars of democracy even if they are just doing it for vote getting purposes.
The previous Prime Minister was a master of wedge politics and spent much of his time trying to make Australians fearful of foreigners - intitally poor bloody refugees fleeing despotic regimes like the Taliban and then later fleeing warfare being fought in the name of truth, justice and the American way. But in reality the verbal attacks were directed at any foreigners with a dusky skin, foreign sounding names and who hailed from parts of the world that good conservative voting Australians knew had never been part of the British Empire. For him the Spetember 11 attacks were a God send. A free kick (an Australian football term) to help him scare the electorate some more and to win yet another election.
Many observers are now convinced that the delicate balancing act of getting citizens to be alert but not alarmed was a deliberate ploy to frighten people enough to convince them that only this government could stand between them and chaos, while not being so frightened that that actually stopped long enough to think.
Eventually they did stop and think of course and he and his fellow (I was going to say travellers, but that would be much too left wing for that conservative mob) so lets just say, MP's were unceremoniously dumped in one of the biggest landslides in Austrlalian electoral history. People had grown tired of the same old tired threats and warnings cynically being dredged up every time an election rolled around. And so, in the case of the PM - he lost his seat, only the second sitting PM to do so in the history of Australia's federation.
The Australian voting public may be slow to wake up to the fact that they are being taken for a ride, but eventually they do with predictable results.
Eventually my firends, the worm turns and it will turn too for politicians still trying this time worn tactic in the UK and USA.
So I am more cynical about these measures in the UK. I do not think they are a harbinger of a belated 1984. They are simply another government having a go at clinging to power by frightening the electorate. To their credit the new Australian government has recently thrown out a plan devised under the previous regime for an Austalian ID card - which no doubt would have made it essential to carry such ID. The older I get, the more I become a civil libertarian. I believe in the due process of law, the importance of an independent judiciary and the rule of law. And I am determined to do my little bit to kick the goddam asses of any government that tries to attack these fundamental pillars of democracy even if they are just doing it for vote getting purposes.
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bmattock
Veteran
sunsworth said:
Well that's bloody well right.
A law enforcement officer in the USA has the right to stop and question any pedestrian on what is called 'mere suspicion'.
Mere suspicion is not probable cause and it is not reason to arrest anyone. A police officer may question anyone as to their name, address, and what they are about (what they are doing). He may also pat them down for weapons for his own safety. That's it.
If he does not develop his mere suspicion into something stronger, such as probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime, he must let him go.
If he does have probable cause, then he may arrest that person and attempt to determine what the facts are. The DA may or may not choose to bring charges - the police do not prosecute crimes.
So yes, you can be stopped any time, and asked to identify yourself. No reason is required at all - just the mere suspicion of the police officer. That's been that way for a very long time indeed.
That's not a problem, that's good law enforcement.
It becomes bad law enforcement when it is used to harass, to illegally detain, or to stop people doing things that are otherwise legal. That's abuse of police power, and I'm against that.
Think about it - if you see some person skulking down your alleyway, and you've never seen him before, and he's the look of a wideboy on him, you'd like to be able to ring up the garda and have them come have a chat with him, yes? Or should they tell you he's done nothing wrong that they can see, so best leave him alone with that DVD player under his arm, yeah?
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
bmattock said:
I wonder what happens if we ask them to delete OUR picture from their CCTV database...
Joe
Established
"Think about it - if you see some person skulking down your alleyway, and you've never seen him before, and he's the look of a wideboy on him, you'd like to be able to ring up the garda and have them come have a chat with him, yes? Or should they tell you he's done nothing wrong that they can see, so best leave him alone with that DVD player under his arm, yeah?"
"Dogs bark at strangers"---Herakleitos
"Dogs bark at strangers"---Herakleitos
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meltedARTS
parallax to the max
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
The issue is that Joe Sixpack (Joe Double-Double or Joe Two-Four in Canada) has absolutely NO ability to discern when someone is "taking photos of unusual objects", etc.bmattock said:
Whatever happened to "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
This whole thing is disgusting. If we live in fear, someone has won ... and it ain't us.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Agreed. One can only hope it starts to change 20-01-09.Larky said:
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
What, pray tell, is behaving suspiciously? Who determines that? You don't seem to have a grasp of fear and paranoia. A certain mainstream political party in the US does, however.bmattock said:
Wayno
Well-known
meltedARTS said:
There used to be a t-shirt available here that said "I am not American" in a few languages (including Arabic) - de rigueur for travelling 😉
Morca007
Matt
Let's say I don't like someone, this is a pretty easy way to hassle them, cause some trouble, and create a cloud of suspicion around them (word gets around that the police are looking around about some suspicious activity).bmattock said:
Joe
Established
Wayno said:
"The value of insipid opponents. At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." ----Nietzsche
visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
Trius said:
Not to be pedantic, but, the FDR quote (part of his first inaugural address) had nothing to do with foreign aggression, crime or terrorism. It had to do with fear of a collapsing economy - i.e. the Great Depression. And for good reason—by 1933 the depression had reached its depth.