My fellow criminals...

Instead of asking photographers what thy're about, how about the police go and harass the gangs of hoodies that frighten and abuse normal hard working people. Perhaps they should be the ones answering questions! I get so tired of this attitude that we need to explain ourselves to a police force that can't sort out it's domestic situation let alone anything else.:bang:
 
bmattock said:
If you do not remember to cut eyeholes in your tinfoil helmet, you'll trip over the furniture. Just a tip from one who's been there.

Spaceman Spiff
Tinfoil Helmet Brigade, Commanding
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No need for tin foil hats Bill
I do not think govenment has our best interests at heart.
you seem to swallow everything these politicos and their media feed you with out question.
open wide.
 
nobbylon said:
Instead of asking photographers what thy're about, how about the police go and harass the gangs of hoodies that frighten and abuse normal hard working people. Perhaps they should be the ones answering questions! I get so tired of this attitude that we need to explain ourselves to a police force that can't sort out it's domestic situation let alone anything else.:bang:
Click to expand...

We do need to explain ourselves if others think we're behaving suspiciously and the police are called. Once we've done that, we should be left alone to do as we like, of course.

The rant about the others who go unmolested by the police is typical. If you're pulled over speeding, you want to know why they're not out stopping 'real crime' and if you are a victim of a wild driver, you want to know why the police aren't doing more to stop speeders, weavers, and drinkers on the highways.

The police have a difficult job to do, and I respect them for what they must go through. My only problem with them is when they exceed their authority and attempt to forbid behavior that is clearly legal, like street photography in most situations and most countries.
 
BillP said:
Number 6: Where am I?
Number 2: In the Village.
Number 6: What do you want?
Number 2: We want information.
Number 6: Whose side are you on?
Number 2: That would be telling. We want information... information... information.
Number 6: You won't get it.
Number 2: By hook or by crook, we will.
Number 6: Who are you?
Number 2: The new Number 2.
Number 6: Who is Number 1?
Number 2: You are Number 6.
Number 6: I am not a number, I am a free man.

Regards,

Bill
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Exactly. Mr.McGoohan was just a bit ahead of the curve. It amazes me that that show was done 40 years ago. In some way, it could have been made last week.
 
xayraa33 said:
No need for tin foil hats Bill
I do not think govenment has our best interests at heart.
you seem to swallow everything these politicos and their media feed you with out question.
open wide.
Click to expand...

Make sure I understand you. If I do not think the government wants to implant me with a microchip, I am a fool?

Yes, I see. Tinfoil hats. I was joking, but I seem to have thrown my dart in the proper direction after all.

I am a very paranoid person by nature. But funny thing - I need evidence that can be verified before I begin to believe a conspiracy. I have seen no evidence of anyone wanting to stick a radio emitting chip in me. Call me a cautious paranoid, if there is such a thing.
 
bmattock said:
Would someone explain to me what is wrong with a person reporting something that they think might be suspicious?

Would someone likewise explain to me what is wrong with a police officer asking a photographer what he or she is about?
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Nothing is wrong with what you say, as long as the police stay within the boundaries of the law. I blame the citizens who call the police solely because someone is photographing a bridge or a railroad. The police have to follow up, even it is from a crank of some kind.
 
bmattock said:
We do need to explain ourselves if others think we're behaving suspiciously and the police are called.
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Straight back to the tinfoil helmets. We only need to explain ourselves if others REASONABLY think we're behaving suspiciously. This ad (and much else in the War on Terror) seems to me to be trying to promote unreasonable suspicion.

Cheers,

Roger
 
I note the advert is a joint one by a number of police forces. One of them is British Transport Police who are responsible for policing Britain's railways. Network Rail operate the railway infrastructure for the train operating companies. If you go to their web-site (www.networkrail.co.uk) and enter 'photography' in the search facility you will get 14 entries. View the third one down on 'Railway Enthusiasts' and see what they have to say about 'Extra Eyes and Ears' and also about 'Photography'. The views of the railway 'owners' seem much more polite and positive than the people who police their property for them. London Underground have much the same sort of attitude, but don't permit flash or tripods anywhere (the system can get very busy and space is often at a premium). I suspect this is a case of a badly pitched, although doubtless well intentioned, advert rather than 'big brother' tactics. I also wonder when those of an anarchic tendency will twig that this could be an excellent way of winding up the constabulary - much fun could be had at the plod's expense....

Andrew More
 
I wonder about the microchips sometimes. All the veterinarians are recommending implanting GPS chips in your pet ... If Fluffy is kidnapped or stolen, she can be located by satellite and recovered. Well, heck! If it's a good idea for the family dog, why not your kids?

Maybe I should get fitted for that tin-foil hat after all.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Straight back to the tinfoil helmets. We only need to explain ourselves if others REASONABLY think we're behaving suspiciously. This ad (and much else in the War on Terror) seems to me to be trying to promote unreasonable suspicion.

Cheers,

Roger
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Since 'reasonable' is such a difficult word to pin down in an objective fashion, I can only disagree with you, but neither of us can gainsay the other, so we seem to have reached an impasse.
 
iamzip said:
Not Huxley. Orwell.

I don't recall reading about neighbors being asked to spy on each other and turn each other in for thoughtcrimes in Huxley.
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Read "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman and "Privacy" by David Brin and then tell me that. We're given everything and lulled to sleep. We willingly give our freedoms away - hell, we demand the government take them and protect us somehow. I mean the collective 'we' of course.

Our future is not one of oppression and dictatorial governments. It is one of Budweiser and the 'why ask why' campaign. Let the government do whatevery they wish, as long as I have beer, a big screen telly, and an SUV in the driveway. That's why the US government is having kittens over the mortgage crisis. Gotta keep the little spuds in their boxes in the suburbs and buying crap they see on TV with their credit cards, you know. Holidays in Majorca with Watney's Bleeding Red Barrel and o dear, I'm channeling Monty Python again. Sorry.
 
brachal said:
I wonder about the microchips sometimes. All the veterinarians are recommending implanting GPS chips in your pet ... If Fluffy is kidnapped or stolen, she can be located by satellite and recovered. Well, heck! If it's a good idea for the family dog, why not your kids?

Maybe I should get fitted for that tin-foil hat after all.
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You already have the hat. Looks quite sporty on you, I must say.

The microchips you speak of are only required in some states - such as California.

And they are not GPS chips, they are RFID chips, which are very different.

They cannot be tracked from space - they only receive power when a 'wand' is passed over them, within inches of the animal.

And when that happens, all it does is power up, and radiate a signal back to the wand - which contains the animals' owner information and so on.

Vets and animal shelters use them to find out to whom animals belong when they are picked up injured or stray. They cannot track the animals from space, they are not GPS units.

They are controversial, I'll give you that - there is some evidence that they may cause skin cancers in the pets they have been implanted in. Which would make them a poor choice for planting in people.

See what I mean?
 
bmattock said:
Make sure I understand you. If I do not think the government wants to implant me with a microchip, I am a fool?

Yes, I see. Tinfoil hats. I was joking, but I seem to have thrown my dart in the proper direction after all.

I am a very paranoid person by nature. But funny thing - I need evidence that can be verified before I begin to believe a conspiracy. I have seen no evidence of anyone wanting to stick a radio emitting chip in me. Call me a cautious paranoid, if there is such a thing.
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We are being tracked Bill, from credit card use, ATM Transactions, Club points cards, GPS in rental cars, CCTV cameras, cell phone use, web viewing patterns, digital camera image id, ..chip implanting humans would would be the next logical thing to occur, and it will be in the next few decades. It will be engineered so that people will actually demand it.

In someways I wish the world was like it was 50 years ago,
but that is a pipe dream.
Our civil liberties are slowly being erroded away, that most people do not notice, but the media tells us it all is for our own good.
Less Government is Good Government.
 
bmattock said:
Since 'reasonable' is such a difficult word to pin down in an objective fashion, I can only disagree with you, but neither of us can gainsay the other, so we seem to have reached an impasse.
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Dear Bill,

'Reasonable' is indeed difficult to pin down, which is why there is so much case law about it.

I have no doubt you would agree that the police are not obliged to listen to every tinfoil-helmet case that walks through the door (or telephones them).

We may therefore differ on the value of the Mets' campaign, but with first-hand experience of living in the UK and of the UK gutter press, to say nothing of an English law degree, this campaign strikes me as classic English hysteria.

You may or may not not remember the paediatrician whose house was trashed because gutter-press readers couldn't tell 'paediatrician' from 'paedophile": anyone who cares to Google the two words together will see that this is not an urban legend.

Cheers,

Roger
 
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xayraa33 said:
We are being tracked Bill, from credit card use, ATM Transactions, Club points cards, GPS in rental cars, CCTV cameras, cell phone use, web viewing patterns, digital camera image id, ..chip implanting humans would would be the next logical thing to occur, and it will be in the next few decades. It will be engineered so that people will actually demand it.

In someways I wish the world was like it was 50 years ago,
but that is a pipe dream.
Our civil liberties are slowly being erroded away, that most people do not notice, but the media tells us it all is for our own good.
Less Government is Good Government.
Click to expand...


50 years ago we were on the brink of complete annihilation through nuclear war, on the other hand you could get a NEW M3 for a couple of months salary...
 
The sudden appearance of a terrorism threat and the hysteria which surrounds it is allowing the UK govt. to bring about all sorts of stuff "for our own good" - constant cctv surveillance is supposed to allay our fears of crime - the spectre of ID cards (the last time a govt. were serious about that, the best excuse they could come up with was "to stop football hooligans"). The prisoner, Orwell, any 80s low budger sci-fi movie - all right !

There was a very real terrorist threat from approx 10 years ago going back a few decades, targetting both civilian, military and government - yet everyone was allowed to get on with their lives.
 
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