Leica LTM Seeking for a IIf or IIIf

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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kleinkamera

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Hi Folks,

by now I own a Bessa R and several other cameras. But my dream is still an real Leica. I once had a C2, but that was no real Leica feeling. Much too new, plastic.... not my kind of camera.

On ebay I often see Ic, IIc or IIIc updated to a IIIf. From a collectors point of view: Are such cameras worth less or more than a real IIIf?

I want to make photos with a Leica. So it neen't be a beauty. When a little Chrom is missing, or some littel marks of the years, I wouldn't mind. But I wouldn't buy one that looks like scrap, too. I better don't ask for prizes here, because in times of the internet the traditional prizes are more or less useless. Sometimes someone pays enormeous amounts, in another case someone shoots a camera for some bucks. But perhaps you can give a range of prizes for a IIIf/updated I/II/IIIc with the standard 3,5/5cm-lens. That would help me very much.

But if you want to sell a IIIf or a updated IIIc or so, please let me know. It can be a IIf as well, but IIIf prefered.

All the best from the home country of Leica,

Thorsten
 
Hi Thorsten, in my opinion Leica conversions are more interesting as collectables than are the original patterns, but generally they don't seem to fetch much higher prices on open auctions,although some Ebay sellers do tend to push up their 'buy it now' prices.However cameras at these inflated prices usually don't seem to sell.If you are looking for a IIIf, I would advise you read the Ebay auction descriptions and sellers feedback record very carefully, and study the photos, but you can still be caught with a dud camera that needs a major rebuild.I am in the happy position that I can do this work, but recently I won a IIc converted to IIIf fom seller o-barnack in the US for less than US$240 landed in Australia, and it was in 'as new' condition. Ebay is the greatest boon to camera collectors and users and you should be able to acquire a good IIIf plus Elmar for between US$300 and 450, with the main drawback being the inability to inspect before you buy. Good Luck, but remember caveat emptor!
 
The typical collector wants to have a 100% original, mint, boxed item. Most collectors consider updated Leicas to be of lower value. If you want a Leica for shooting, this should not matter.

To buy a used Leica in Germany, i would prefer to visit a used camera shop or a camera trade show, where you can check the items before buying. It's more fun than searching on eBay, and the prices will not differ too much. Prices of screw mount Leicas do not vary as much as prices of other used items.

Best regards
Uwe
 
Most upgrades were done by Leitz in many cases most of the camera being replaced , but still cost effective compared with a new camera .

This means than an upgraded Leica , far from being a hacked camera , is later rebuild .
 
Thanks for the answers! The IIIf in the classifieds is new. Didn't knew about it. I'm thinking it over. The Price seems good to me.

The suggestion to go to a shop or show is okay. I was in a shop in Cologne. But the prices were high there cause a dealer has to give warranty. On a show it may be different.

On Ebay you never know what you get. You may have luck, you may not. That is my problem. So I'm thinking that over, too.

Greetz,

Thorsten
 
Don't forget to figure in the cost of an overhaul and curtain replacement, which is around $300 from a reputable place like Krauter or DAG here in the states. Better yet hold out for a iiif that's already had the work done and has the paperwork. Local repair shops can't really work on Leicas properly in my experience. There's no such thing as free lunch, especially when it comes to Leicas.
 
Thank you, Colyn. An absolutely spot-on assessment. And to Paul C. Perkins, MD, collector value is based not only on condition but on scarcity, and there are far fewer conversions to black dial IIIf than there are original IIIf's. And when one comes upon what must be the greatest source of collector and user cameras, Ebay, check out the price that a "white dial" IIIf achieves. The "white dial" can be anything from a IA to a III converted by Leitz to IIIf specification.
 


Here`s my 1945 Leica IIIC K (non stamp) to IIIFBD Original Leitz Factory Conversion less than 1 month fresh back from it`s CLA (thx Leo!)
with a veteran 1950 Nikkor HC 50/2 - *Korean War Reenactment Set Up - complete with a beatup aftermarket halfcase, a Leica OKARO and original Nippon Kogaku filters* I love this camera!

I have no problem USING a conversion, this camera`s with me everyday, the "wartime" era styled IIIC to IIIF is a collectors item in itself - Leica "purists" cringe at them, thus they are still reasonable priced IIIC`s

The high quality of the 1944 to 1946 cameras is very memorable and with the added improvments of the conversion
(New Bearings *super smooth operating* plus the Flash Sync) hence making the ultimate Leica of the 1940`s

I think Charles will agree with me on this one...... 🙂

Tom
 
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Well it seems now as if I would buy a IIIf with fresh CLA from a forum member. I hope it will be all that easy as it seems now to me. The camera must pass an ocean to come to me. I will let you know, when the deal is done and my first real Leica is in my hands.

Greetings from Germany,

Thorsten
 
Hi Tom and kleinkamera,
Tom, that is a beautiful conversion, and yes, I am envious. And the 2/5.0 Nikkor that came on my ultra cheap SP is my favorite 50 lens so I can appreciate your having it on an everyday user. Mine beats the socks off any Leica, Canon or Zeiss 50 I own. My wartime IIIc converted to BD IIIf is a rather sorry looking affair compared to yours, but with new curtains and a beam splitter cut from a piece of Canonet glass, it is an excellent user. I will always find Leica conversions, cameras that have been returned to the Wetzlar factory for modification to a new pattern and a thorough overhaul, much more interesting than the standard patterns that were generally made in such huge numbers.
kleinkamera, I hope you enjoy using your new Leica, but I do believe there are more practical rangefinder cameras from the same 1950's era as the f series Leicas.
 
If it was changed from a IIIc to IIIf - it was hacked. Fact that Leitz committed the deed or not.
- Paul


If it was done by Leitz it was not hacked..
__________________
Colyn
 
Have you ever noticed that when Leitz upgraded a IIIc to a IIIf, they also updated the film advance knob. I wonder if the updated the bottom plate, as well.
 
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