murrayb53
Established
I've wanted a Luftwaffe Leica Outfit for some time and have finally completed a small set. This set includes a '42 IIIc with all markings fully intact, a 35mm Luftwaffen Elmar, and a Gray Luftwaffen Everready Case.
The camera appears as though it had seen its share of use. There are a couple patches of vulcanite missing, the remaining is dried out, the slow speeds are out, and a couple dings. The higher speeds fire but who knows as to their accuracy and the RF is in fine shape.
It's not a pretty camera, but then when you really think about it, you kinda want a wartime issued camera to have seen some....action, however this camera was on the wrong side of the action. It really does make you "go back" and think of where and what it had been and seen.
The Collector in me wants to replace the vulcanite, repair the shutter, and possibly pop a couple dings, but the Historian says to leave it as-is. It's in this direction I'm leaning.
What's your opinion ?
Steve
The camera appears as though it had seen its share of use. There are a couple patches of vulcanite missing, the remaining is dried out, the slow speeds are out, and a couple dings. The higher speeds fire but who knows as to their accuracy and the RF is in fine shape.
It's not a pretty camera, but then when you really think about it, you kinda want a wartime issued camera to have seen some....action, however this camera was on the wrong side of the action. It really does make you "go back" and think of where and what it had been and seen.
The Collector in me wants to replace the vulcanite, repair the shutter, and possibly pop a couple dings, but the Historian says to leave it as-is. It's in this direction I'm leaning.
What's your opinion ?
Steve
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Leave the exterior alone. A CLA for the shutter speeds would be fine. Having spoke with museum curators in the past their opinion is always the same: do NOT do anything that is NOT reversible.
FrankS
Registered User
Well, you asked for opinions...
I self-edited. OT
(I'm not saying that my opinion on this is the only or best, or that you should listen to it, but you asked.)
I self-edited. OT
(I'm not saying that my opinion on this is the only or best, or that you should listen to it, but you asked.)
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Ducky
Well-known
jarski
Veteran
edit: deleted..ot.
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eli griggs
Well-known
If you leave it as is, it's a just a relic, however, if you restore it to working condition it's a camera; which do you want more?
Eli
Eli
murrayb53
Established
Hi Frank,
I fully understand and respect your position.
Steve
I fully understand and respect your position.
Steve
lubitel
Well-known
This object is relatively rare, represents a part of history and should stay that way. whether that history is "dark" or not is irrelevant. If you wanted a Leica IIIc to photograph with I am sure you wouldn't have gotten a Luftwaffe Camera.
murrayb53
Established
Correct. I have no plans to use it.
It's just an automatic reflex to clean, and restore.
Steve
It's just an automatic reflex to clean, and restore.
Steve
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Argh. Don't touch it! It's history.
Would you take dings out of the 'Spirit of St Louis'?
bmattock
Veteran
Note: I am posting this only after some considerable deliberation. I am not trying to stir things up or start a fight. I felt compelled to answer, though...
When I was a kid, I often saw ads in the back of comic books, surplus dealers selling 'genuine unissued Rommel goggles' for a couple bucks. The ad urged us to 'imagine you are the Desert Fox, blitzkrieging through North Afrika in your tanks corps' or words to that effect. The kid in me thought it was pretty cool. I asked my dad for a pair of those goggles.
I never got over the hurt look he gave me. He told me my two of my grand-uncles fought the Japanese in the South Pacific, and one of my grand-uncles died in France, fighting against Germans. He asked me why I would want to own something that had been created to help German soldiers kill Americans. Just goggles? Sure, goggles never killed anyone. Nor did a camera, unless it was used as a blunt instrument, I guess. But it's tainted, from my point of view. My dad's lesson took - I'd throw it in the trash can. My 2 cents.
When I was a kid, I often saw ads in the back of comic books, surplus dealers selling 'genuine unissued Rommel goggles' for a couple bucks. The ad urged us to 'imagine you are the Desert Fox, blitzkrieging through North Afrika in your tanks corps' or words to that effect. The kid in me thought it was pretty cool. I asked my dad for a pair of those goggles.
I never got over the hurt look he gave me. He told me my two of my grand-uncles fought the Japanese in the South Pacific, and one of my grand-uncles died in France, fighting against Germans. He asked me why I would want to own something that had been created to help German soldiers kill Americans. Just goggles? Sure, goggles never killed anyone. Nor did a camera, unless it was used as a blunt instrument, I guess. But it's tainted, from my point of view. My dad's lesson took - I'd throw it in the trash can. My 2 cents.
monkeypainter
Established
¿Tainted?
When german or japanese warbirds perform at airshows people see what they are: magnificent machines perfectly designed. You can not blame these airplanes for the horror and evil of that times.
The guy that used to operate that leica was, probably, a good man just trying to survive to talk to his wife and childre, one more time. Maybe he volunteered for the Luftwaffe's documentary service just to avoid beeing rafted for a SS-sturmtruppen pack of psychopats.
This camera is just a beautiful piece of history.
bmattock
Veteran
I don't hate Germans, or the people who served in the war. You mistake my beliefs. I merely find no worthy purpose in honoring the symbols of the former enemies of my country. I'd have coffee with your friend, too. If he showed me his prized collectible WWII-era Nazi flag, I'd blow my nose on it.
monkeypainter
Established
My grandfather flew with the germans of the Condor Legion during the spanish civil war. I have some photos of him in uniform, with some medals carrying svastikas.
He was a good man.
jody36
Well-known
if u dont want camera send it to me.
bmattock
Veteran
IMHO, no one collects Nazi memorabilia because it makes them think of a decent honest man just doing the best he could during a horrible time in the world's history. They collect it because of the cache and allure of the symbol of Nazism.
I have full sympathy for the plight of the hapless German who was conscripted and did his duty to his country as best he could - we cannot choose our nation of birth, or some of the circumstances of our lives. I just do not honor the symbols that represent that era.
If the camera was just valued for its 'historic' significance, then civilian Leicas from the same era would command the same prices - they don't. People collect them because of what they symbolize.
I do not honor those symbols. They were symbols of hatred. They belong to the past - the dishonorable section.
Sorry, just my opinion.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I would get it CLAed and would run some film through it.
Leica Tom Eitnier would be the man to get advice from if you choose to get it professionally restored.
Leica Tom Eitnier would be the man to get advice from if you choose to get it professionally restored.
bmattock
Veteran
I would not doubt it. You mistake my dislike for the symbols of hatred with how I feel about Germans or even Germans who fought in WWII against the Allies.
I would have been thrilled to have met someone like your grandfather, to talk to him about his experiences, how he felt about it, what it meant to him - that's history, that's worth preserving. If, on the other hand, he wanted to sell me one of his medals with a Swastika on it, I'd decline. Not the person - the symbol.
monkeypainter
Established
Well, he didnt't like very much to talk about the war. He had very bitter memories, he saw (and felt) a lot of hate. And never got completely rid of it.
bmattock
Veteran
My g-uncles never talked about the war, either. I didn't know them all that well. The last one died not too long ago. He was an atheist, she wasn't - he became one during the war. I visited him after his wife died a few years before he did, and he was very cranky about all the calls and cards and visits he had been getting. "She's dead, she's not in heaven, she's just gone, and her body is dust. That's it." When he went, his will stipulated no services of any kind. He gave all his money to a veteran's organization. I think about him from time to time, and wonder if he was right about there being no hereafter or not. I guess we'll all find out.