kshapero
South Florida Man
It's been a while since this acclaimed series came out. I would love to hear any long term updates from owners about the usability of the R4A/M. I have owned an R3A before so I assume reliability and handling are the same therefore I wish to hear more about the uniqueness of the R4M/A. I have some wide angle glass that I was thinking of getting an R4 to complement my ZI and R-D1.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I love my R4A--I believe I sold my R3M to you, Akiva, in order to buy it. Wonderful with a 28 or 21. Seems quite sturdy to me, too. Generally I reach for it whenever I want AE, although the M2 has been getting more attention lately.
Seriously, it is incredible to get to use a 21mm lens without an accessory finder. If that's what you like doing, this is the best camera there is.
Seriously, it is incredible to get to use a 21mm lens without an accessory finder. If that's what you like doing, this is the best camera there is.
JRG
Well-known
Dunno that it's long term, but I've had an R4M for a couple of months, and an R3M for about equally long.
I picked the R4M partly just to try out the VF. But I wanted to use my ZM 25 Biogon, and I was able to buy an R4M for only a little more than a Zeiss or Leica external VF that covers 25mm. So, an internal 25 VF with an attached shutter and film transport --- why not?
I really like the R4M! It's terrific to be able to use a 25 (or, a 21, if you've got one) without resorting to an external VF. I can also use the 35 and 50 framelines of the R4M w/o any difficulty, though I don't own a 50 any more. (FWIW: I wear glasses, and I can see the 21 framelines with no real effort.)
Mostly I use 25, 35 and 75 lenses, especially the latter two. The R4M is great for the 25 and 35, and I got the R3M for the 75. The 1:1 VF there is great, but I've now got a Leica body that I prefer to use with the 75, so I'll probably sell the R3M. But the R4M definitely stays!
I picked the R4M partly just to try out the VF. But I wanted to use my ZM 25 Biogon, and I was able to buy an R4M for only a little more than a Zeiss or Leica external VF that covers 25mm. So, an internal 25 VF with an attached shutter and film transport --- why not?
I really like the R4M! It's terrific to be able to use a 25 (or, a 21, if you've got one) without resorting to an external VF. I can also use the 35 and 50 framelines of the R4M w/o any difficulty, though I don't own a 50 any more. (FWIW: I wear glasses, and I can see the 21 framelines with no real effort.)
Mostly I use 25, 35 and 75 lenses, especially the latter two. The R4M is great for the 25 and 35, and I got the R3M for the 75. The 1:1 VF there is great, but I've now got a Leica body that I prefer to use with the 75, so I'll probably sell the R3M. But the R4M definitely stays!
I have had one since released. It is my most used RF at this time, 90% of the time with my 28 skopar. I think it is the best Bessa ever.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
BTW, I might be alone in this, but I like using a 50 on the R4A. I don't have to put in my contacts to do it.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
owner of an R4a... what everyone else has said.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
The reliability and handling may be a little different depending on when you got your old R3A. The major difference as far as I know is that the film take up spool was respecified. The new R3A has this upgrade, too. It makes film advance noticeably smoother.
For wides the R4A is a lot of fun and a perfect complement to the ZI and RD-1. The larger ZM wides (21/2.8 and 25/2.8) will block the VF a bit (not a deal-breaker for me). If you have a ZM C Biogon 21/4.5 or a ZM 28/2.8, the R4A is perfect! The single frameline for 28 is heaven; the 21 frame is the only game in town. The use of moderate wides (28 and 35) on the high mag VF allows you to see a lot of action around the framelines. It's a great way to use the ZM "C" series lenses (21,35 and 50 (except at full 1.5 aperture close focus)) as well as the mini/slow VC wides/normals.
mfogiel
Veteran
The R4A is a great camera, but it has limitations. The biggest one is the close distance between the VF and the lens mount, therefore only the tiniest lenses (especially if you use the lens shades, as I do) do not intrude significantly into the VF - the only lens out of the 21-28 range that I use (which is what the R4A is really for) which intrudes to an acceptable degree, is the Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH. The second biggest problem of all Bessa Rxx line, is the backward tilt of the body caused by a not well thought out placement of the lugs. The third problem, is in case of my camera, a lose rewind crank flip up part, which tends to spin off and block film advancing, if you want to rewind the crank holding the camera in a vertical position ( which is what comes natural to me if I shoot with one hand on a preset focus basis). However, these problems are not huge, and unless you are a fan of external viewfinders, for a glass wearer like me, this is the only game in town for the 21-28mm range.
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Tuolumne
Veteran
I asked this before and got hammered, but I'll ask it again. What, exactly, is the problem with external view finders? I use them all the time on my Leicas and R-D1. What's the big deal?
/T
/T
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
It's not a big deal, it's just one more thing you have to do. I also like the idea of a camera being self-contained...all that you need is right there. This is why I usually shoot Sunny-16 with meterless cameras, rather than bring a meter with me...I just find it more enjoyable not to have to use an accessory anything.
I do use the 15mm Heliar finder, but not having to focus cushions the blow a little.
I do use the 15mm Heliar finder, but not having to focus cushions the blow a little.
JRG
Well-known
"I asked this before and got hammered, but I'll ask it again. What, exactly, is the problem with external view finders? I use them all the time on my Leicas and R-D1. What's the big deal?"
Well, here's a list:
1. An external VF tends to snag clothing. I could carry (say) an R3M with 25/4 Skopar in my pocket, but the 25 VF makes it hard to get the thing out to use.
2. An external VF tends to disrupt your working style. With Lens A on your camera, you frame, focus, set expsoure. Switch lenses on that camera, mount an external VF, and you've got to now check the external VF in addition. With short enough lenses, you can just scale focus and concentrate on the VF; then, working with an external VF becomes pretty nice. That doesn't work nearly as well with a 75mm external VF.
3. With some cameras/VFs, it's too easy to lose that external VF. And on the other hand, I've used a couple of combinations where it was near impossible to get the shoe to release the VF.
4. External VFs slow down the process of switching lenses. It's one more thing you gotta do, and time can be precious, on occasion. Worse, the VF can get separated from the lens, so you gotta hunt for it in your bag. And just maybe, you discover that you brought the lens but left the external VF at home.
5. Some folks have other uses for that shoe, a meter maybe. (Not me, but it's fairly common.)
Now, none of those bits of awkwardness is beyond conquering in some way. In fact, I still use an external VF in some situations. But if I don't have to, I'd rather not.
In my own case, I use mostly 25/35/75 lenses and, very rarely, a 90. An R4M lets me switch quickly between 25 and 35, and M4-P (among others) lets me switch quickly between 35 and 75. Generally, I've got 400BW film in both bodies, so I carry them with 35 and 75 mounted. Once in a while, I decide to shoot some color. Then, I'll use a 25 external VF with the M4-P, or a 75 external VF with the R4M (but not at wide apertures), as need be.
Nothing wrong with external viewfinders that can't be tolerated. But the R4M does away with a lot of need to tolerate some awkwardness with wide angle lenses.
My $0.02US.
Well, here's a list:
1. An external VF tends to snag clothing. I could carry (say) an R3M with 25/4 Skopar in my pocket, but the 25 VF makes it hard to get the thing out to use.
2. An external VF tends to disrupt your working style. With Lens A on your camera, you frame, focus, set expsoure. Switch lenses on that camera, mount an external VF, and you've got to now check the external VF in addition. With short enough lenses, you can just scale focus and concentrate on the VF; then, working with an external VF becomes pretty nice. That doesn't work nearly as well with a 75mm external VF.
3. With some cameras/VFs, it's too easy to lose that external VF. And on the other hand, I've used a couple of combinations where it was near impossible to get the shoe to release the VF.
4. External VFs slow down the process of switching lenses. It's one more thing you gotta do, and time can be precious, on occasion. Worse, the VF can get separated from the lens, so you gotta hunt for it in your bag. And just maybe, you discover that you brought the lens but left the external VF at home.
5. Some folks have other uses for that shoe, a meter maybe. (Not me, but it's fairly common.)
Now, none of those bits of awkwardness is beyond conquering in some way. In fact, I still use an external VF in some situations. But if I don't have to, I'd rather not.
In my own case, I use mostly 25/35/75 lenses and, very rarely, a 90. An R4M lets me switch quickly between 25 and 35, and M4-P (among others) lets me switch quickly between 35 and 75. Generally, I've got 400BW film in both bodies, so I carry them with 35 and 75 mounted. Once in a while, I decide to shoot some color. Then, I'll use a 25 external VF with the M4-P, or a 75 external VF with the R4M (but not at wide apertures), as need be.
Nothing wrong with external viewfinders that can't be tolerated. But the R4M does away with a lot of need to tolerate some awkwardness with wide angle lenses.
My $0.02US.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The R4 M/A is one of the milestone cameras in the Rf world in my opinion. Up there with the Leica II (1931), The M3 and the Nikon SP/Nikon F. I have had mine since it was available and it has taken a beating. but not a single problem with it. Usually it has a 21 C-Biogon on it or the 28f2.0 Ultron. Also have tried it with the Summilux 21f1.4 ASPH at Photokina and the new 24f3.8 ASPH last week.
As for external finders, I do use them with extreme wides, 12/15/18mm (and occasionally with the 18 on the R4M and some guessing). Finders fall off, they break the concentration, the snag on straps and jackets and, if you "shortstrap" two bodies on your chest, they break!! I have lost a lot of finders over the decades and the R4 is a much better deal! By the way, the R4 is $200 less than the new Leica 21 finder!!!!!!!!
Some larger lenses do protrude into the finder a bit (Leica 21/24 Asph, Zeiss 21/25 2.8 and the new 21f14 ASPH) but it is a trade-off that I am willing to live with as it is highly convinient and fast. If you are a 28 shooter - there is a glorious set of 28 frames with no other frames visible!
As for external finders, I do use them with extreme wides, 12/15/18mm (and occasionally with the 18 on the R4M and some guessing). Finders fall off, they break the concentration, the snag on straps and jackets and, if you "shortstrap" two bodies on your chest, they break!! I have lost a lot of finders over the decades and the R4 is a much better deal! By the way, the R4 is $200 less than the new Leica 21 finder!!!!!!!!
Some larger lenses do protrude into the finder a bit (Leica 21/24 Asph, Zeiss 21/25 2.8 and the new 21f14 ASPH) but it is a trade-off that I am willing to live with as it is highly convinient and fast. If you are a 28 shooter - there is a glorious set of 28 frames with no other frames visible!
kshapero
South Florida Man
Excellent post, thanks Tom
__hh
Well-known
Whilst only a recent owner of the R4A, I am impressed with this little camera. I expected it to be like the R-D1(s) in build, but it turns out to be surprisingly small, and the compact size also gives it a sturdier solid/quality feel.
The ONLY reason why I bought the R4A was to use my 21mm ZM effectively. I nearly bought a 2nd hand 21mm ZM VF, but came across this near new R4A from a fellow RFF'er at similar costs. I now have an extra body, and don't have to stuff around with those 'pesky' finders.
The AE on the R4A is surprisingly handy and works very well - makes me feel like a cheat
Film rewind on the R4A is very smooth in my case. Film advance could be a bit smoother.
It's also nice to know that I can use my other lenses on this camera if needed (the 35mm and even 50mm).
The ONLY reason why I bought the R4A was to use my 21mm ZM effectively. I nearly bought a 2nd hand 21mm ZM VF, but came across this near new R4A from a fellow RFF'er at similar costs. I now have an extra body, and don't have to stuff around with those 'pesky' finders.
The AE on the R4A is surprisingly handy and works very well - makes me feel like a cheat
Film rewind on the R4A is very smooth in my case. Film advance could be a bit smoother.
It's also nice to know that I can use my other lenses on this camera if needed (the 35mm and even 50mm).
sherm
Well-known
Akiva,
For your wide angles this would be a great addition to your collection. I'm going to guess that the ad from David yesterday about his R4 brought on this GAS attack???
At the price of 500.00 it's a no-brainer. I've had mine since April last year with a ZM 25/2.8 almost permanently mounted on it ! It's a great piece !
Scott
For your wide angles this would be a great addition to your collection. I'm going to guess that the ad from David yesterday about his R4 brought on this GAS attack???
At the price of 500.00 it's a no-brainer. I've had mine since April last year with a ZM 25/2.8 almost permanently mounted on it ! It's a great piece !
Scott
principe azul
Ian
Fantastic camera. I like using RFs "one frameline in" to give a bit of space round the edge for more fluid composition. So it suits me to a T with a 25. But I'd like a 21/4.5, too... I got into RFs not because they were cool but because I wanted wider, where RFs excel. So the camera makes perfect sense. Only a .52x finder Hexar RF could better it...
Difficulty with external VFs? For me, either looking through the camera VF to focus/meter and composing for whatever frameline happened to be on display, rather than for the much wider FOV of the lens - or else composing through the external VF for a landscape and forgetting I'd left the lens at minimum focus. For other people, an external VF works well, especially if you set the lens at hyperfocal and forget it.
I got into RFs not because they were cool but because I wanted wider, where RFs excel. So the camera makes perfect sense. Only a .52x finder Hexar RF could better it...Difficulty with external VFs? For me, either looking through the camera VF to focus/meter and composing for whatever frameline happened to be on display, rather than for the much wider FOV of the lens - or else composing through the external VF for a landscape and forgetting I'd left the lens at minimum focus. For other people, an external VF works well, especially if you set the lens at hyperfocal and forget it.
back alley
IMAGES
an r4a and a zi 21/4.5 lens = pure happiness!
a zi with a zi 35/2.8 = orgasmic bliss
a sony a300 with a sigma 24-60 = a whole lotta fun
a zi with a zi 35/2.8 = orgasmic bliss
a sony a300 with a sigma 24-60 = a whole lotta fun
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
back alley
IMAGES
fuwen
Well-known
Well, u are not alone. I like the same as with the smaller frame lines the finder clears my ZM 50/2 totally.