JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
This Tuesday I will begin my last semester in high school before I graduate. Lucky for me, I have a B&W film photography class second period. This is the second time I've taken it and I can't wait to take it again. I have been shooting color only for a really long time and I'm ready to start shooting/developing/enlaring B&W again.
I will be using a Minolta SRT-101 SLR (Can't afford a RF quite yet). When it comes to B&W, I love high contrast and very dark skys. Without those two things, I probably wont like the picture. Could you guys help me with figuring out what I need to do to get dark skys and/or high contrast?
Is a dark red filter the best thing to use for dark skys? To get high contrast prints, should I use filters on the enlarger? (I probably won't be able to choose my own film because my teacher sells some to use for pretty cheap)
My 28mm and 35mm lenses both have a 49mm filter thread. Should I order a 49mm filter set like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/49mm-COLOR-FILTERS-RED-BLUE-GREEN-YELLOW-ORANGE-SEPIA_W0QQitemZ310112575412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Filters?hash=item310112575412&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Thanks
I will be using a Minolta SRT-101 SLR (Can't afford a RF quite yet). When it comes to B&W, I love high contrast and very dark skys. Without those two things, I probably wont like the picture. Could you guys help me with figuring out what I need to do to get dark skys and/or high contrast?
Is a dark red filter the best thing to use for dark skys? To get high contrast prints, should I use filters on the enlarger? (I probably won't be able to choose my own film because my teacher sells some to use for pretty cheap)
My 28mm and 35mm lenses both have a 49mm filter thread. Should I order a 49mm filter set like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/49mm-COLOR-FILTERS-RED-BLUE-GREEN-YELLOW-ORANGE-SEPIA_W0QQitemZ310112575412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Filters?hash=item310112575412&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
Thanks
oftheherd
Veteran
Since I haven't seen any photos from you I can't judge. Most people would think a yellow filter would be sufficient since it will have less effect on other elements of the photo. But for maximun effect on the sky, a deep red would be it.
foto_mike
Established
A red filter will block blue light (actually cyan light). That's why you see things in red when looking through it. The blue has been filtered out.
Most B/W film is much more sensitive to cyan/blue light than it is red. The sky, being mostly blue, tends to be overexposed relative to the foreground which is usually a mixture of other colors. That makes the sky show up white in the prints. Using a red filter will block much of the sky blue light from reaching the film and it will be rendered much darker. Many people like the dramatic affect, especially when there are clouds in the sky. The clouds, being white, will not be blocked as much as the blue sky and will tend to stand out. A deep red filter can render the sky almost black in the final prints.
Other color filters will block various colors of light as well. Look at a standard color wheel. A filter will block light from the opposite side of the color wheel from the color it looks to you. You can experiment with different color filters to see the effect. Yellow and Orange filters are also common for certain situations.
There are three ways to end up with high contrast prints. Use high contrast film which you indicated may not be possible in your case. You can underexpose the negatives and increase the development time. It's called pushing the film. Lastly, most people control contrast in the darkroom by using variable contrast paper and the appropriate filters for the enlarger.
Most B/W film is much more sensitive to cyan/blue light than it is red. The sky, being mostly blue, tends to be overexposed relative to the foreground which is usually a mixture of other colors. That makes the sky show up white in the prints. Using a red filter will block much of the sky blue light from reaching the film and it will be rendered much darker. Many people like the dramatic affect, especially when there are clouds in the sky. The clouds, being white, will not be blocked as much as the blue sky and will tend to stand out. A deep red filter can render the sky almost black in the final prints.
Other color filters will block various colors of light as well. Look at a standard color wheel. A filter will block light from the opposite side of the color wheel from the color it looks to you. You can experiment with different color filters to see the effect. Yellow and Orange filters are also common for certain situations.
There are three ways to end up with high contrast prints. Use high contrast film which you indicated may not be possible in your case. You can underexpose the negatives and increase the development time. It's called pushing the film. Lastly, most people control contrast in the darkroom by using variable contrast paper and the appropriate filters for the enlarger.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
med Yellow filter, unless you want the clouds to really pop then go for med Red. Enjoy your last semeter in high school.
calexg
Established
I recommend the very common 25A filter--that should give the effect you're after. It absorbs blue light, thus making the sky appear dark.
If you're in to high contrast photos, you can either underexpose and push the film (as mentioned above) or use a high-contrast paper.
If you're in to high contrast photos, you can either underexpose and push the film (as mentioned above) or use a high-contrast paper.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I am thinking about getting a 49mm polarizer and a 49mm red filter. I know that I can get a dark sky if I use those. I don't really know if I need any other colors right now because darkening the sky is the only thing I can think of doing. What do the Wratten numbers like "25A" mean? Also, is there a certain brand I should get? Some are way more expensive than others.
Bill Harrison
Member
High contrast film
High contrast film
I've been buying outdated high contrast copy film on ebay for abt $10-15 per 100 ft roll. That's 19 rolls of 36 exp @ less than $1/roll if you have some cassettes available. These films tend to be low asa and last far beyond their exp date and if ref stored or frozen can still be good beyond 20 years. You might find other students willing to trade for your "exotic" stuff..... Check out the threads on RFF for plus x and double xx movie film also, for good, inexp and fresh film to roll your own.... GOOD LUCK, Bill
High contrast film
I've been buying outdated high contrast copy film on ebay for abt $10-15 per 100 ft roll. That's 19 rolls of 36 exp @ less than $1/roll if you have some cassettes available. These films tend to be low asa and last far beyond their exp date and if ref stored or frozen can still be good beyond 20 years. You might find other students willing to trade for your "exotic" stuff..... Check out the threads on RFF for plus x and double xx movie film also, for good, inexp and fresh film to roll your own.... GOOD LUCK, Bill
venchka
Veteran
The red, 25A, will do the trick. Personally, I think the black sky+white clouds is almost a cliche. However, done well, even a cliche looks nice.
I get a lot of use out of yellow-green and yellow-orange filters. Before that, my only filter was a medium yellow, K2, that I liked. I had good luck finding used B+W and heliopan filters at this Forum. Now I have medium yellow, yellow green, yellow orange and medium red in various sizes.
Caution: Efke and maybe Foma (Arista from Freestyle) have very little sensitivity to red and don't behave well with yellow and red filters. The good news is that anything red comes out darker than normal in the print. Use that to your advantage.
I get a lot of use out of yellow-green and yellow-orange filters. Before that, my only filter was a medium yellow, K2, that I liked. I had good luck finding used B+W and heliopan filters at this Forum. Now I have medium yellow, yellow green, yellow orange and medium red in various sizes.
Caution: Efke and maybe Foma (Arista from Freestyle) have very little sensitivity to red and don't behave well with yellow and red filters. The good news is that anything red comes out darker than normal in the print. Use that to your advantage.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Why is it called "25A"?
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I think I might try what you are suggesting. I can buy whatever film I like because she is charging 5 bucks per roll which isn't cheaper than tri-x. The only thing is, 1600 seems a bit high. Is there a 100 speed film that I could push to 400 that could give me the same good contrast and grain
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I looked at that trying to figure out what "25A" meant earlier. But after thinking about it, I don't see any better way of labeling all the different colors of filters. I guess its just a random number/letter thing that just makes it easier to describe a certain filter.
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venchka
Veteran
It's only important in a general way. B+W has their own way of labeling filters. I don't think Hoya even puts the Wratten numbers on filters anymore. 25A is middle red, K2 or 8 is middle yellow. I think green is O. Go figure.
Film: If you like using Tri-X, load up on Arista Premium 400 at Freestyle Photo. It is Kodak Tri-X in disguise. $1.99/36 exp. roll. Get some of the Arista Premium 100 also. It is Kodak Plus-X. Treat it gently. No pushing. Box speed or maybe a slight pull, say ISO 80. Developed in D-76 1:1 it makes very beautiful negatives. Lovely open shadows, well behaved highlights and just a hint of lovely grain in 35mm. I'm going through a pile of negtives I made in Europe in 1969. I scanned a roll last night. The Plus-X negatives look wonderful. Darn! I wish Kodak would make Plus-X sheet film.
Film: If you like using Tri-X, load up on Arista Premium 400 at Freestyle Photo. It is Kodak Tri-X in disguise. $1.99/36 exp. roll. Get some of the Arista Premium 100 also. It is Kodak Plus-X. Treat it gently. No pushing. Box speed or maybe a slight pull, say ISO 80. Developed in D-76 1:1 it makes very beautiful negatives. Lovely open shadows, well behaved highlights and just a hint of lovely grain in 35mm. I'm going through a pile of negtives I made in Europe in 1969. I scanned a roll last night. The Plus-X negatives look wonderful. Darn! I wish Kodak would make Plus-X sheet film.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I will have to use HC-110 developer. I've never used Tr-X. I've just seen that its pretty popular around here and figured that it could pair well with my teachers HC-110. All I really know is that I like dark skys (I'll get a red filter and maybe a polarizer) and I like high contrast and grain (I think I can get this by pushing film).
Right now I'm just wondering.............Should I buy a set of filters and what brand would be best for buying filters (or does it even matter)?
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venchka
Veteran
Why?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
D-76 1:1, Xtol 1:3 or Rodinal 1:100.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
D-76 1:1, Xtol 1:3 or Rodinal 1:100.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Is HC-110 bad? Crap. This is what my teacher has for us.
venchka
Veteran
I have no idea if HC-110 is crap. I have never used it. I only know what I know. I know that the three developers I listed above work for me and the films I use. I am a long tonal scale, just enough grain to remind me that it's film junky.
Be a good student. Follow directions. After you finish the class, start exploring. Find a film+developer combination you like and stick with it.
I would imagine that in a school darkroom enviornment, HC-110 is very manageable for the tecaher. It keeps forever. You only mix what you need at any given time. One less thing for the teacher to have to worry about. So, the choice of developer is for the convenience of the teacher. That kind of thing would make me look for something else. But that's just me. Don't get in trouble being "different". Not yet anyway.
One thing you can do with HC-110 is to try various combinations of dilutions and time. More dilute=more time. Find out what happens. I like very dilute developers and long times. You may not. Another thing to try: Vary your ASA setting. Half box speed, double box speed, etc. Adjust development time accordingly. You can get all the information you need from Kodak's web pages.
Be a good student. Follow directions. After you finish the class, start exploring. Find a film+developer combination you like and stick with it.
I would imagine that in a school darkroom enviornment, HC-110 is very manageable for the tecaher. It keeps forever. You only mix what you need at any given time. One less thing for the teacher to have to worry about. So, the choice of developer is for the convenience of the teacher. That kind of thing would make me look for something else. But that's just me. Don't get in trouble being "different". Not yet anyway.
One thing you can do with HC-110 is to try various combinations of dilutions and time. More dilute=more time. Find out what happens. I like very dilute developers and long times. You may not. Another thing to try: Vary your ASA setting. Half box speed, double box speed, etc. Adjust development time accordingly. You can get all the information you need from Kodak's web pages.
venchka
Veteran
I guess you're after this look, hey?
Sorry about the grain. The original is 6x7.
Sorry about the grain. The original is 6x7.
venchka
Veteran
Filters..........
Filters..........
Best quality for the money: Hoya Multi-coated.
Best quality filters: B+W or heliopan multi-coated.
Like I said earlier, I have had good luck buying B+W or heliopan filters used but not abused. The good news is that you need 49mm filters. Very plentiful and cheap.
Filters..........
Best quality for the money: Hoya Multi-coated.
Best quality filters: B+W or heliopan multi-coated.
Like I said earlier, I have had good luck buying B+W or heliopan filters used but not abused. The good news is that you need 49mm filters. Very plentiful and cheap.
venchka
Veteran
Don't buy that funky set of 6 color filters on ebay you listed earlier. You don't even know if they conform to the Wratten scheme of things. There are two in the set you'll never need. They aren't that cheap.
I looked at KEH and they are out of filters. Place a Want To Buy ad here. They are free. Somebody will offer something. I have a couple extra filters I would give you but they are 39mm. Sorry.
I looked at KEH and they are out of filters. Place a Want To Buy ad here. They are free. Somebody will offer something. I have a couple extra filters I would give you but they are 39mm. Sorry.
calexg
Established
HC-110 isn't bad. If it were "bad," it would have gone out of production a long time ago. Each developer has its own unique characteristics, making it special in its own way. Explore HC-110. Get to know its look. Know when to use it and know when not to use it.
Get yourself a K2 and a 25A. They are very common filters, and you can find excellent quality for a relatively inexpensive price with Hoya. As others have mentioned, B+W are excellent; however, they are of a different class (read: more expensive).