JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I guess you're after this look, hey?
Sorry about the grain. The original is 6x7.
I love the look of that sky.
What Filters?
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I love the look of that sky.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
TriX in HC-110 is my preferred film/developer combination. I can shoot very smooth images with great tones at 250 or push the same film to a lovely gritty 3200 - all depending on the processing. A very flexible combination once you learn the different ways to use it.
I like a yellow filter for contrast in the sky, but I'll throw on a red if I really want it dramatic.
I like a yellow filter for contrast in the sky, but I'll throw on a red if I really want it dramatic.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I was thinking of using Tr-X in our class's HC-110 but I think that pushing the film 2 stops might help me get the certain look that I am after. (High contrast and plenty of grain). So if I were to push the 400 Tri-X, I'd have to shoot at 1600, which seems too high. I will be doing a lot of shooting outside into the sky (I will probably have a new red filter that I will want to try out) and inside my school.
So should I just go for pushing the Tr-X to 1600 and deal with the tiny apertures, or should I get a 100 speed film and push it to 400? Would this get me the same type of effect?
foto_mike
Established
Don't forget a red 25a filter will cost you 3 stops of light. So, shooting Tri-X with the filter on the lens, you gain two stops by shooting at 1600 and lose three for a net loss of one stop or an equivalent ISO of 200.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I was wondering about that. How did you know that it was 3 stops? This makes me really excited to try a combination of a two stop push and a red filter.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Before you go off the deep end, you should develop some B&W at normal speed and normally exposed, using normal films. From experience, when I was your age I was all over the map, and I really never got where I wanted to be until I was almost 30. Shoot rolls at normal speed (box speed) develop nomally, enjoy what you have, learn your camera, its meter, learn your film, and developer. Then try some filters. I still get fooled by filters (check out 'film factor filters' on Google. And I do everything manually. When you use a red filter it darkens blue (right?) which includes shadows so you get more contrast. Do you want high contrast or practically black and white.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Never thought about that. Thanks. I'll try box speed first.
charjohncarter
Veteran
In my stumbling manner, I was trying to say; when you are learning, don't hopelessly increase the number of variables. Get an established base of knowledge and then expand from there. There will be plenty of time for a red filter.
calexg
Established
Agreed. Though it is fun to play around!
Go here for more information about filter factorshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_factor
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Yea, I was just looking at that. I use Wikipedia for almost everything. I guess I'm lucky to have TTL metering so that I don't have to compensate for what my light meter tells me.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Except that meters are easily fooled. Best to know what's going on and what to expect.
I whole-heartedly agree with charjohncarter - get a solid base of experience with one film and one developer following a basic processing schema. Then introduce variables. No use seeing what a red filter does with your combination if you don't know what to reasonably expect without it.
My comments were just to indicate that there is nothing wrong with the HC-110 and TriX combination, and over the years, I've worked out a pretty good system. But by over the years, I mean over the past 20 years of shooting and processing pretty constantly.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Would something like this seem like the best option? Its a dark red multicoated B+W filter. The filter factor is 8 which is 3 stops.
http://www.adorama.com/BW49DRM.html
Or here is a light red multicoated B+W filter. The filter factor is 5. (I don't know how many stops that is)
http://www.adorama.com/BW49LRM.html
There is also a cheaper Heliopan and Hoya but the Hoya doesn't list a filter factor and the Heliopan says that the filter factor is 8 but that when using TTL metering set the exposure correction to +1 which I don't really understand.
http://www.adorama.com/BW49DRM.html
Or here is a light red multicoated B+W filter. The filter factor is 5. (I don't know how many stops that is)
http://www.adorama.com/BW49LRM.html
There is also a cheaper Heliopan and Hoya but the Hoya doesn't list a filter factor and the Heliopan says that the filter factor is 8 but that when using TTL metering set the exposure correction to +1 which I don't really understand.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
This is my second time taking this class. Last time I took it, I developed a ton of film and enlarged lots of pictures. I'm no expert but I really want to try a red filter because I like dark skys.
charjohncarter
Veteran
rogue designer is right, I always use the filter factor even when using a TTL meter camera. But you still get fooled. Also, he says TriX and HC-110, and this is a good place to start. You can hardly mess up HC-110 and TriX is not a finicky film. If you just have to use a red filter take two shots of each scene one with and one without the filter. I would check your readings on the TTL meter to see if they are in the filter factor ballpark though. Good luck, you will have a great time though your life with photography. Be sure to take pictures of everyone in your life and your class mates, their cars, the old buildings in your town. Take your camera to parties, and any event you are invited to. Save all your RAW files (negatives) in those 'Print File' sleeves and in ten years you will have a photo project that you never imaged was there.
venchka
Veteran
Film Development 101
Film Development 101
Jeremy,
You have gotten a whole classroom year of great information here free for nothing.
Thank you for the compliment on my photo. I like that photo myself. What I like more is that I had a camera with me. The photo isn't perfect. I can see many ways that I could improve on it. However, that photo is 1,000 times better than what I would have if I hadn't carried my big hulking Pentax 6x7 on that backpacking trip.
Want to know a secret? I don't think I used a filter for that photo. In fact, I can't remember owning any filters for that lens. It's possible that I had a medium yellow filter or maybe a polarizer. I just can't remember. I am pretty sure that I didn't have a red filter.
Slow down. Take a deep breath. Place a Want To Buy ad here at this forum for 49mm filters. Medium yellow, green and red. Those will last you a lifetime. You could probably get by with an orange filter in place of the yellow and red. In the last two years, I have paid, on average, about $25 for used B+W and heliopan filters in sizes from 43mm to 67mm. The last time I was in the local camera store that keeps a lot of used gear, I paid $35 for a heliopan yellow and an off brand red in 67mm. Actually, the yellow heliopan was $30 and the generic Japanese red filter was $5. I think that's a good pair because I will use the yellow filter a lot and I wanted it to be good quality. If I see that the red filter degrades my images, I'll toss it and get a good one. For the time being, the cheap filter is fine to let me see if I like red filters or not.
Take very good care of your negatives. Label the pages with subject, date, film, exposure, developer, time, etc. I am currently scanning my way thorugh Europe, 1969. I managed to keep the negatives all these years. However, my record keeping is nonexistent. I have no clue how the film was developed. If it weren't for Kodak labeling the film edges, I wouldn't even know what type film I had. Keep good notes. Label everything. Carry a camera. Carry a notebook. Use both. Be the Camera Geek!
Good luck! Go burn some film!
Cheers!
wayne
Film Development 101
Jeremy,
You have gotten a whole classroom year of great information here free for nothing.
Thank you for the compliment on my photo. I like that photo myself. What I like more is that I had a camera with me. The photo isn't perfect. I can see many ways that I could improve on it. However, that photo is 1,000 times better than what I would have if I hadn't carried my big hulking Pentax 6x7 on that backpacking trip.
Want to know a secret? I don't think I used a filter for that photo. In fact, I can't remember owning any filters for that lens. It's possible that I had a medium yellow filter or maybe a polarizer. I just can't remember. I am pretty sure that I didn't have a red filter.
Slow down. Take a deep breath. Place a Want To Buy ad here at this forum for 49mm filters. Medium yellow, green and red. Those will last you a lifetime. You could probably get by with an orange filter in place of the yellow and red. In the last two years, I have paid, on average, about $25 for used B+W and heliopan filters in sizes from 43mm to 67mm. The last time I was in the local camera store that keeps a lot of used gear, I paid $35 for a heliopan yellow and an off brand red in 67mm. Actually, the yellow heliopan was $30 and the generic Japanese red filter was $5. I think that's a good pair because I will use the yellow filter a lot and I wanted it to be good quality. If I see that the red filter degrades my images, I'll toss it and get a good one. For the time being, the cheap filter is fine to let me see if I like red filters or not.
Take very good care of your negatives. Label the pages with subject, date, film, exposure, developer, time, etc. I am currently scanning my way thorugh Europe, 1969. I managed to keep the negatives all these years. However, my record keeping is nonexistent. I have no clue how the film was developed. If it weren't for Kodak labeling the film edges, I wouldn't even know what type film I had. Keep good notes. Label everything. Carry a camera. Carry a notebook. Use both. Be the Camera Geek!
Good luck! Go burn some film!
Cheers!
wayne
venchka
Veteran
ps: Changing contrast is best done at the printing stage. Get the longest tonal scale possible on your negatives. Adjust contrast when making the prints. Contrast is easily increased or decreased with VC filters, graded paper or software. However, if the negative has no middle tones, your stuck. To my eye, a high contrast negative is a sure sign that I did something wrong.
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charjohncarter
Veteran
venchka, is right go for the best negative you can get, then add/subtract contrast to your liking. I guarantee you will not like in ten years and you will be able to improve it if you have a good full tone negative. You can print for more contrast as venchka says and you can PhotoShop for more contrast too.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I know. Its great. This is one of the best forums that I am a member of.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I know all about scanning a flat negative and adding contrast in Photoshop. This is all I have done for over a year with C-41 film. But now I am going to stop scanning and only make 8x10 prints in my schools darkroom. How do I add contrast to a print using an enlarger. I know that my teacher has a little book of enlarger colored filters. Do these add contrast to an already B&W negative?
foto_mike
Established
Use variable contrast (VC) paper when you print. The book of enlarger filters will be indexed from green to blue. The contrast of the final print can be controlled by using the desired filter with VC paper.
It's also possible to buy graded contrast paper and avoid the use of filters for the enlarger. It's less common because many people like to experiment with printing at different contrast grades while using the same paper.
Use Google to search for variable contrast printing.
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