American car manufacturers-who needs them?

[bmattock]

I agree 100%. "Too big to fail" is the mantra of the rich and powerful when they get into financial trouble.

AIG just got another 30 billion dollars by just asking for it. Said they might be back for more - potentially another 250 billion. Not one word, not one murmur of dissent from the Detroit-haters. NOT ONE WORD OF COMPLAINT.

Today, the FDIC told us that they need access to another 500 billion dollars - yes, half a trillion - to backstop and take over more failing banks. NOT ONE WORD OF COMPLAINT from most.

Detroit has asked for less money IN LOANS than the banks and brokerages gave their executives in bonuses after we bailed them out to the tune of 700 billion dollars. Oh, there was a minor burp of complaint about that, but nothing about letting the banks fail.

All those with all the hatred for Detroit - let other people do without jobs, let Michigan shut down entirely, let the US taxpayer have to take over all the pension funds from the failed automakers - as long as your ATM machine works, right?

We have given the banks and mortgage brokers ten times in handouts what the automakers are asking for in loans, but no, you WANT the automakers to fail, and if the banks fail, that might affect you personally, right?

The 'Stimulus Package' was supposed to CREATE JOBS. It would cheaper by far to just PAY the automakers to keep the workers on the payroll until the economy is back on its feet, but no, you'd rather let the automakers fail, and then spend billions more to try to create new jobs to replace the old ones - that makes NO SENSE, but you don't care.

It's a deep-seated hatred of the American automakers - and that is all it is. It's kind of sick, to be honest.

 

[gb hill]

Limbaugh's popularity is concentrated among "angry white males", an example of whom is above.

Who said anything about race? BTW I'm not angry. & you are still ignoring my comment's on tax cheating Dems that are in the administration. or had to resign because of too much heat.

 

[gb hill]

I heard a man on a radio station (not Rush) that lives in California, went to a car dealership & the taxes he said being placed on a new car, plus state vehicle regrestration has doubled in the past year. He said no way anyone will buy a new car. The Democrats are not only going to spend this country into oblivion there going to tax us to death.

 

[gb hill]

Bill, your right about the banks being paid more than the car mfgs. I'm afraid it's too late to bail GM & Chrysler. John McCain said yesterday that they should go ahead and file bankruptcy. Then they can restructure & hopefully come back stronger. The UAW IMO is what's killed off the US car manufactures. They need to get rid of the unions. Obama is a union man, he don't care about the company's. What he don't understand is you have to take care of these businesses by incentives & tax breaks. Liberals don't see this & they cry out for the worker aka (Unions) & that is causing jobs to move over seas & now the stockmarket to plunge.

 

[calexg]

I disagree with the comments made about unions. They are there to protect workers and ensure they can maintain a healthy standard of living in exactly the same situations that the USA is going through now. To say that the president should off the unions shows an extreme lack of compassion and is very brash.

 

[ebolton]

All those with all the hatred for Detroit - let other people do without jobs, let Michigan shut down entirely, let the US taxpayer have to take over all the pension funds from the failed automakers - as long as your ATM machine works, right?

We have given the banks and mortgage brokers ten times in handouts what the automakers are asking for in loans, but no, you WANT the automakers to fail, and if the banks fail, that might affect you personally, right?

The 'Stimulus Package' was supposed to CREATE JOBS. It would cheaper by far to just PAY the automakers to keep the workers on the payroll until the economy is back on its feet, but no, you'd rather let the automakers fail, and then spend billions more to try to create new jobs to replace the old ones - that makes NO SENSE, but you don't care.

It's a deep-seated hatred of the American automakers - and that is all it is. It's kind of sick, to be honest.

True, Bill. Except they don't want to "create new jobs to replace the old ones". They just want those primarily Democratic voters in those northern states to freeze to death or starve. There is a good chance it will backfire, though... a long bankruptcy proceeding, even if GM comes out OK in the end, will shut down suppliers the Japanese plants in the southern US depend on. Then there will be 20% unemployment in the bible belt, too.

The root of the problem has never really been the banks. With unions broken or dysfunctional, and a hands-off government, there has been nobody looking out for average folks for the better part of 30 years, and they are disappearing. Without them, there can be no financial industry because it is their wealth that "bubbles up".

 

[Olsen]

Funny how you talk about Limbaugh being a drug addict but totally ignore tax cheats like Gietner, Dashel, & the many others Obama chose to be in his cabnet. I predict in two years Obama's administration will be in such turmoil Secertary of State Hillary Clinton will resign & the American people will have waken up! and will see what Obama is really about, Hillary will come out against Obama & make another run for the White House. Obama, in 5 weeks has already dissed the British. Gave the PM 25 dvd's what a shame. Machelle gave the Brittish PM son's toy helecopters from the WH gift shop. What a joke!

I agree with you that it is not fair to hold it against anyone that they have a drug or alcohol problem. Fanatically religious, that I can't take. Be it George Bush or Osama bin Laden.

Depending on how deep this crisis is gonna be, the deeper the worse, the Obama administration will be in trouble. It will have to face the deep disappointment of not living up to the voter's expectations. At the same time Obama will have to keep good on promises made to those who financed his campaign. Like the cronies on Wall Street. I see no happy compromise here - if the crisis get worse.

But GB. You are a 'conservative American', among who you find many among ordinary Americans, those who are going to take the fall when the nation now gets into deep trouble. (- I take it that you are not high up on 'the Forbes List'). Can't you see that you have been conned? This 'conservativism' is not going to serve you and your fellow 'ordinary' Americans, - or the nation, any good. It hasn't served you good! Isn't it about time to rethink attitudes?

 

[gb hill]

Olsen, American's have been conned by greed. Both parties are to blame for this. Wall Street is to blame for this also. What you don't know is that Democrat's feed on a slow economy so they can pass radical egendas. They wish to create a wellfare state which we call socialism. Obama love's what is happening to the market's right now. This is why economist & investors like Jim Kramer are speaking out against Obama. Obama is not the moderate like everbody thought! American's are starting rallies all over the US called tea-parties, I bet you are not seeing this on your news. I hope this will get Americans awaken to the Fair Tax. If we could get the Fair Tax you would see a boost in this economy like you would never believe. The Democrats don't like this because it's not a structure for wellfare. Notice this past week how the stocks have been plunging & all Pres. Obama has been focusing on is Health Care. Holding stupid health care summits. He's a dang idiot!

 

[gb hill]

I disagree with the comments made about unions. They are there to protect workers and ensure they can maintain a healthy standard of living in exactly the same situations that the USA is going through now. To say that the president should off the unions shows an extreme lack of compassion and is very brash.

You miss the point! GM is failing because Unions are greedy. They have stole the profits from GM, charged outrageous union dues from employees so GM can not profit. Workers are not satisified with 20 dollar an hour jobs so they cry for 45 dollar an hour job. (just an example) Tell me how can a company thrive on being treated this way? Greed my friend! Don't tell me I lack compassion! Your just showing your ignorance & lack of common sense in all of this. I understand that there are corporations that have shuned employees, but the big picture is that by punishing these corporations by placing higher taxes & penalties on them is the wrong way to go! Do you not understand that without corporations there are no jobs! Wake your brain up & think!

 

[ebolton]

Olsen, gb hill is a "Dittohead", the American term for those who swallow Limbaugh's crap hook, line, and sinker.

It amazes me that Limbaugh claims, and people believe, that he loves America, when it is clear he hates over half of the living Americans. I guess he just likes the scenery.

 

[40oz]

^ I agree.

It makes people like him feel better to blame everyone else for their situation. No sense of personal responsibility, even if they voted for the guys that put us in this boat. Just whine and cry that everyone else is ruining things. News flash - if you don't collect taxes, you drive the economy into a hole and create a massive deficit. Something the conservatives in the US have yet to figure out. Probably because they struggle with basic math while insisting they are the "smart ones." :/

 

[gb hill]

Olsen, gb hill is a "Dittohead", the American term for those who swallow Limbaugh's crap hook, line, and sinker.

It amazes me that Limbaugh claims, and people believe, that he loves America, when it is clear he hates over half of the living Americans. I guess he just likes the scenery.

You haven't a clue. Limbaugh doesn't push the Fair Tax! All you can do is make post putting me down. You ignore those crooked politicians in your party now running this country should be in prison for tax evasion. I dare you to read the fair tax book! All you can post is Limbaugh is an idiot but you cannot post rational reasons why Rush is wrong! So keep posting & show your ignorance!

 

[gb hill]

^ I agree.

It makes people like him feel better to blame everyone else for their situation. No sense of personal responsibility, even if they voted for the guys that put us in this boat. Just whine and cry that everyone else is ruining things. News flash - if you don't collect taxes, you drive the economy into a hole and create a massive deficit. Something the conservatives in the US have yet to figure out. Probably because they struggle with basic math while insisting they are the "smart ones." :/

You don't make a bit of sense! Just another liberal I guess.

 

[40oz]

You don't make a bit of sense! Just another liberal I guess.

Yes, that is your way of saying "I don't understand! Why are you people pointing and laughing when I say the solution to our government debt is to stop collecting taxes?!?"

Call me a name and write me off as someone who "just doesn't get it." Don't spend one minute thinking for yourself, or considering another point of view. You know all you need to know already. You are the smartest person on the planet and the thoughts of others will just clutter your brilliance.

See, historically humans use names to separate themselves from others. In wars it plays out over and over - they are different because they are "Jerrys" or "Yanks" or "Rebs" or whatever. It makes it easy to see them as thoughtless creatures who aren't human like you. Your word is "liberal." You use it whenever you feel threatened or cornered. Rather than consider how you got there, you try to blame others for pointing out the weakness in your logic.

You call people names like a child.

Try - just try - to consider that there is more than one valid option in life. That people who disagree with you just may be right. The possibility exists that YOU ARE WRONG once in a while. And that standing up and beating your chest and insisting that *you know* is just humiliating when the facts surface and you are proven wrong. The facts have surfaced, and guess what?

 

[Olsen]

Olsen, American's have been conned by greed.

Well, this we can agree upon.

You claim also that GM is falling apart because of greedy unionised workers. This is certainly wrong. American auto workers are not that well paid compared to both the Japanese and European competitors. Their salaries and purchasing power has fallen in pace with the falling dollar. Actually, even more.

While the American auto CEO's, on the other hand, are far higher than their competitors just anywhere. When George Bush sj had with him a delegation of auto CEO's to Japan, only one of them, Lee Iacoca, earned more than all the CEO's of the total Japanese auto industry together!

It's a myth that American worker's salaries are that high internationally. While USA is overrepresented with billionairs and grossly overpayed CEO's. Think about that for a while.

Further; I agree with you that both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame for the crisis. These two parties are too close. Which points to that USA is ripe for a political reform.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Apparently you know nothing about Al Franken, He stole the election from Norm Coleman, He is a leftist who couldn't hack it on Air America. He is ten times over more the idiot than Limbaugh.

Stole, eh?

Why are the courts having difficulty in coming to a decision as quick and clear as yours?

Perhaps it's because they're thinking about it, rather than regurgitating Limbaugh?

Incidentally, many people (including me) regard 'liberal' as a compliment; the opposite of 'illiberal'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[gb hill]

Stole, eh?

Why are the courts having difficulty in coming to a decision as quick and clear as yours?

Perhaps it's because they're thinking about it, rather than regurgitating Limbaugh?

Incidentally, many people (including me) regard 'liberal' as a compliment; the opposite of 'illiberal'.

Cheers,

R.

Apparently you were not informed about the hundreds of votes that were found in the trunk of a car! This is the problem with people from other countries posting on global forums like rff. Our conservative & liberal views apparently are different than yours.

 

[40oz]

^ heh 🙂

I live in Minneapolis, MN. I have a front row seat to the Franken/Coleman contest. I like both guys, and think it's kind of unfair to paint either Franken or Coleman as the bad guy. Their race was very close, and after listening to them debate I have to say that either one would be a good Senator.

State law mandated a recount as the margin of error was larger than the margin of victory. Whoever is finally decided the winner has gone through our election process and won the way *we Minnesotans* intend - through our courts of law. The question of whether they somehow broke the law in attaining victory will already have been decided. That's why we have this court process in the first place. To hear people say the winner "stole" the election is ludicrous. It never would have been a question if so many people hadn't voted for him!

He's got as much a mandate to be a senator as the other guy, unless you just think we shouldn't count votes for anyone but the guy you'd vote for. And that doesn't sound very American.

Fun fact - While mayor of St. Paul, Norm Coleman switched from Democrat to Republican. This was in 1996. If he had stayed a Democrat, Norm Coleman would be the current sitting Minnesota Senator 🙂

Article from yesterday's paper: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/40850567.html?elr=KArksUUUU

Lawyers acting like lawyers, and going through the legal motions like they are paid to do. Pretty boring stuff, actually 😀

 

[gb hill]

Well, this we can agree upon.

You claim also that GM is falling apart because of greedy unionised workers. This is certainly wrong. American auto workers are not that well paid compared to both the Japanese and European competitors. Their salaries and purchasing power has fallen in pace with the falling dollar. Actually, even more.

While the American auto CEO's, on the other hand, are far higher than their competitors just anywhere. When George Bush sj had with him a delegation of auto CEO's to Japan, only one of them, Lee Iacoca, earned more than all the CEO's of the total Japanese auto industry together!

It's a myth that American worker's salaries are that high internationally. While USA is overrepresented with billionairs and grossly overpayed CEO's. Think about that for a while.

Further; I agree with you that both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame for the crisis. These two parties are too close. Which points to that USA is ripe for a political reform.

$25.00 to $35.00 an hour is good money here in the US. I don't know where you get your information where they don't get good pay?

 

[gb hill]

^ heh 🙂

I live in Minneapolis, MN. I have a front row seat to the Franken/Coleman contest. I like both guys, and think it's kind of unfair to paint either Franken or Coleman as the bad guy. Their race was very close, and after listening to them debate I have to say that either one would be a good Senator.

State law mandated a recount as the margin of error was larger than the margin of victory. Whoever is finally decided the winner has gone through our election process and won the way *we Minnesotans* intend - through our courts of law. The question of whether they somehow broke the law in attaining victory will already have been decided. That's why we have this court process in the first place. To hear people say he "stole" the elction is ludicrous. It never would have been a question if so many people hadn't voted for him!

He's got as much a mandate to be a senator as the other guy, unless you just think we shouldn't count votes for anyone but the guy you'd vote for. And that doesn't sound very American.

Fun fact - While mayor of St. Paul, Norm Coleman switched from Democrat to Republican. This was in 1996. If he had stayed a Democrat, Norm Coleman would be the current sitting Minnesota Senator 🙂

I have no problem with some Dems. Coleman then should of stayed a Dem. BTW I haven't called any of you names. When I say ignorant it's not like I'm calling you stupid, I'm not. I'm the one being called names, not that I care. I'm kinda enjoying our discussion. besides it's no fun if everyone agrees all the time. As for your other post now that you explained yourself I understand now what you were saying. This thread is about American car companys. My main point is that with government regulations & high taxes along with unions they did great damage to the companies that have trickled down over many years & now they have hit the bottom.