Jonathan Pritchard
Newbie
I bought a heavily worn - but at the time of purchase fullly working M2 a couple of months ago for £220, it was sold as fully working - but no garruntee.
The camera itself has obviously been taken apart at some point by somone without the proper tools: teeth marks on the retaining rings, slip scratches on the rewind and front lever retainers, but it focussed properly, shots taken with it confirm this, and the shutter seemed accurate enough so I didn't really mind - apparently even though the person didn't have the tools it seemed they'd done an OK enough job.
however now the rangefinder has stopped rangefinding, and the cam arm has lost its spring - when moved by hand the framlines move for parrallax but focussing does not- the images align at 0.5m.
I think it was caused by me using an un-named 39mm-M adapter - it would always be a little stiff at the last milimeter of turning it to remove it, a closer look at it reveals the adapter has a pretty rough finish to the slope thats meant to push the rangefinder cam out of harms way.
Looking at the rangefinder arm and comparing it to pictures I found online the gain adjustment cam was upsidedown, which seemed a bit odd, it was also missing the final retaining washer, my theory here is that the person who had repaired it lost the washer and solved it by flipping the cam over to allow it to be screwed in without the retainer.
I took it to my local secondhand camera shop to see if they could repair it, after a week they said we can't fix it because we can't get the parts and it requires the top plate to be removed -not sure why they hadn't called to tell me.
After I got it back the offeding cam fell off, the screw stayed put.
To be fair when I looked at it in the first place I really couldn't tell how the cam was staying put, it looked like it was about to fall off anyway.
So my options are either send it away or attempt the repair myself.
I don't think I can really afford to send it away.
I'm currently at University studying Engineering - I mention this because it means I have free access to a relatively well kitted out workshop and skilled machinists as well as a pretty good grasp of engineering. I've looked up and found quite a lot of material online covering Leica CLA's, it seems doable, I can get the neccisary tools made up easily enough and maybe even any parts that are needed if I can get accurate enough specs for them.
Basically how feasable is this repair, what damage am I likely to do to it if I get things wrong and what are the likely reasons for the rangefinder not working like this? -I'm guessing something under the top plate has become disengaged.
The camera itself has obviously been taken apart at some point by somone without the proper tools: teeth marks on the retaining rings, slip scratches on the rewind and front lever retainers, but it focussed properly, shots taken with it confirm this, and the shutter seemed accurate enough so I didn't really mind - apparently even though the person didn't have the tools it seemed they'd done an OK enough job.
however now the rangefinder has stopped rangefinding, and the cam arm has lost its spring - when moved by hand the framlines move for parrallax but focussing does not- the images align at 0.5m.
I think it was caused by me using an un-named 39mm-M adapter - it would always be a little stiff at the last milimeter of turning it to remove it, a closer look at it reveals the adapter has a pretty rough finish to the slope thats meant to push the rangefinder cam out of harms way.
Looking at the rangefinder arm and comparing it to pictures I found online the gain adjustment cam was upsidedown, which seemed a bit odd, it was also missing the final retaining washer, my theory here is that the person who had repaired it lost the washer and solved it by flipping the cam over to allow it to be screwed in without the retainer.
I took it to my local secondhand camera shop to see if they could repair it, after a week they said we can't fix it because we can't get the parts and it requires the top plate to be removed -not sure why they hadn't called to tell me.
After I got it back the offeding cam fell off, the screw stayed put.
To be fair when I looked at it in the first place I really couldn't tell how the cam was staying put, it looked like it was about to fall off anyway.
So my options are either send it away or attempt the repair myself.
I don't think I can really afford to send it away.
I'm currently at University studying Engineering - I mention this because it means I have free access to a relatively well kitted out workshop and skilled machinists as well as a pretty good grasp of engineering. I've looked up and found quite a lot of material online covering Leica CLA's, it seems doable, I can get the neccisary tools made up easily enough and maybe even any parts that are needed if I can get accurate enough specs for them.
Basically how feasable is this repair, what damage am I likely to do to it if I get things wrong and what are the likely reasons for the rangefinder not working like this? -I'm guessing something under the top plate has become disengaged.
sanmich
Veteran
Welcome to RFF Jonathan.
Frankly,
I wouldn't deal with such a thing.
It's not regular maintenance, it's a repair.
If you don't know what is wrong and exactly how get it right, I wouldn't bother.
There are good specialists around and this is what you need to get your camera right.
After you get it right, adjusting it from time to time, or CLA can be a completely different story, although you also have chances to mess something there...
Good luck whatever your choices are...
Frankly,
I wouldn't deal with such a thing.
It's not regular maintenance, it's a repair.
If you don't know what is wrong and exactly how get it right, I wouldn't bother.
There are good specialists around and this is what you need to get your camera right.
After you get it right, adjusting it from time to time, or CLA can be a completely different story, although you also have chances to mess something there...
Good luck whatever your choices are...
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
First try to get hold, probably on line, of a M2 repair manual. This will help you with disassembly and re-assembly. The M2 is "fairly" simple as cameras go - but it was a german design and they kept fiddling with some parts long after it was necessary. German engineers tend to do that!
If your problem is with the rangefinder assembly - you need to look at it with the top off. The focussing arm and roller are pretty straight forward - though the fitting of the roller is on an excentric cam. Try to avoid taking the actual rangefinder assembly apart - it is a bitch to put together.
Beg, borrow or "steal" a small digital P&S camera with a macro-mode and document everything as you go along - will help immensely with the reassembly.
Most of the screws are metric, from 1.6mm to 2 mm thread pitch so keep that in mind if you have to make up or procure new ones.
Avoid at all cost removing the shutter drum and drive - i.e leave the inside top-plate intact and concentrate on the rangefinder assembly.
When you get the rangefinder re-assembled - you have to collimate it for focus. IF the rangefinder coincides correctly at 1m/3m/5m and at infinity - that is enough,
There are plenty of sites showing you how to set the rangefinder's horizontal and vertical alignment - that is easy.
One important note - NEVER work on a smooth table top and have wall to wall carpet! Pick up one of those little plastic trays for water colors - small dimpled depressions for keeping screws and springs from vanishing!
There used to be a Brownlee (?) Military M2 repair manuals - spiral bound. They are quite good - but a bit difficult to find (I know - I can't find my copy!!!).
Good luck.
If your problem is with the rangefinder assembly - you need to look at it with the top off. The focussing arm and roller are pretty straight forward - though the fitting of the roller is on an excentric cam. Try to avoid taking the actual rangefinder assembly apart - it is a bitch to put together.
Beg, borrow or "steal" a small digital P&S camera with a macro-mode and document everything as you go along - will help immensely with the reassembly.
Most of the screws are metric, from 1.6mm to 2 mm thread pitch so keep that in mind if you have to make up or procure new ones.
Avoid at all cost removing the shutter drum and drive - i.e leave the inside top-plate intact and concentrate on the rangefinder assembly.
When you get the rangefinder re-assembled - you have to collimate it for focus. IF the rangefinder coincides correctly at 1m/3m/5m and at infinity - that is enough,
There are plenty of sites showing you how to set the rangefinder's horizontal and vertical alignment - that is easy.
One important note - NEVER work on a smooth table top and have wall to wall carpet! Pick up one of those little plastic trays for water colors - small dimpled depressions for keeping screws and springs from vanishing!
There used to be a Brownlee (?) Military M2 repair manuals - spiral bound. They are quite good - but a bit difficult to find (I know - I can't find my copy!!!).
Good luck.
If you can afford, I'd recommend sending it to Youxin Ye in the states. He can turn it around in a few days for a very reasonable price. "Youxin Ye" <wye7@yahoo.com>
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'd agree with that ... I was actually crazy enough to mess around with a beater M2 I had until I realised I was way out of my depth. The whole lot eventually got sent to Youxin and he still only charged me the basic CLA fee which was $120.00 from memory!
I have pretty decent mechanical skills with a light engineering background but when I look inside cameras like the M2 I quickly realise my limitations and lack of patience!
gavinlg
Veteran
Very honest and good repairmen that doesn't charge like a wounded bull.
MikeL
Go Fish
Jonathan, is what you are calling the 'gain adjustment' cam the one that makes contact with the lens (10-meter and infinity), or is it the point where the rangefinder arm rotates (1 meter adjustment)?
hans voralberg
Veteran
If you can drive, pay CRR in Luton a visit, I find that as long as you call him personally or drop-by the turn around is quite quick 
historicist
Well-known
If you really want to fix it yourself somewhere out there on the internet there is a repair manual for the KE-7A, which if I remember rightly is a military version of the M4.
I had a quick google, and couldn't find it, but it's called something like 'KE-7A still camera field service guide', maybe someone else remembers where to find it.
I had a quick google, and couldn't find it, but it's called something like 'KE-7A still camera field service guide', maybe someone else remembers where to find it.
topoxforddoc
Established
Another vote for Peter Grisalfi at CRR in Luton. He's the best Leica technician in the UK. He's very busy and his wait time is now up to May. The wait's worth it though.
Charlie
Charlie
Blank288
Established
When you have some 'micro-technical' interest and experience - apparently you do - and access to the proper tools, you should be able to give it a try.
Biggest problem seems to me that some nitwit has tried it before and reassembled the rangefinder arm and adjustment system apparently the wrong way. Thus it is uncertain how the RF parts should fit together, and if indeed you have all the parts complete.
I would try to find a copy of, spelt literally: camera set, still picture KS-(15)4 Repair Training Program. It consists of quite clear descriptions for 1. General Functioning, 2. Troubleshooting, 3. Disassembly, 4. Repair and Aligning and 5. Reassembly of Leica M2, some lenses, M4 light meter and flash. At the end of the document there are lots of exploded views with all the parts exposed. I think you'll need such illustrations to solve your problem.
I have found a scanned PDF copy of this manual on the internet quite some time ago and downloaded it. I can't remember where it came from. For me the document has been a great help in repairing/adjusting my M3, MR-meter and Summaron 2,8/35.
Edit: it was easy to retrieve: it is published on Kim Coxons Pentax-manuals.com.
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf
There is more Leica repair info available there.
I would consider Youxin Ye too. As suggested he is a cheap, quick and very coöperative repairman if you should decide to hand it over.
Biggest problem seems to me that some nitwit has tried it before and reassembled the rangefinder arm and adjustment system apparently the wrong way. Thus it is uncertain how the RF parts should fit together, and if indeed you have all the parts complete.
I would try to find a copy of, spelt literally: camera set, still picture KS-(15)4 Repair Training Program. It consists of quite clear descriptions for 1. General Functioning, 2. Troubleshooting, 3. Disassembly, 4. Repair and Aligning and 5. Reassembly of Leica M2, some lenses, M4 light meter and flash. At the end of the document there are lots of exploded views with all the parts exposed. I think you'll need such illustrations to solve your problem.
I have found a scanned PDF copy of this manual on the internet quite some time ago and downloaded it. I can't remember where it came from. For me the document has been a great help in repairing/adjusting my M3, MR-meter and Summaron 2,8/35.
Edit: it was easy to retrieve: it is published on Kim Coxons Pentax-manuals.com.
http://www.pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf
There is more Leica repair info available there.
I would consider Youxin Ye too. As suggested he is a cheap, quick and very coöperative repairman if you should decide to hand it over.
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Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Here you can find the manuals (I will delete them after some time so make sure to download)
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kpmg0072/repair%20manual/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kpmg0072/repair%20manual/
nobbylon
Veteran
i've just had mine completely apart and as I said last week, was surprised how easy it was to do. However it sounds to me like the rangefinder arm is not on the shaft properly and is not actually actuating the rangefinder correctly. When fitting the arm dont push too hard to get it on the shaft otherwise you can push the shaft up into the rangefinder. If it has just make sure the arm is seated correctly in the shaft and when you tighten the screw it will pull the shaft into the semi squared off hole in the arm.
As Tom said, DO NOT TAKE THE RANGEFINDER APART!
Try this first and put the arm and parts back on in the correct sequence before taking the top off!
As you focus toward infinity you are moving the arm against spring pressure so if the arm is not on properly then the rangefinder will go to the minimum distance as you have said yours has.
As Tom said, DO NOT TAKE THE RANGEFINDER APART!
Try this first and put the arm and parts back on in the correct sequence before taking the top off!
As you focus toward infinity you are moving the arm against spring pressure so if the arm is not on properly then the rangefinder will go to the minimum distance as you have said yours has.
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nobbylon
Veteran
this probably explains it better but it does sound like all you are missing is the tiny washer to go around the gain cam retaining screw
http://jumboprawn.net/jesse/cams/gear-profiles/leica-m2-overhaul/leica-m2-overhaul.html
http://jumboprawn.net/jesse/cams/gear-profiles/leica-m2-overhaul/leica-m2-overhaul.html
newsgrunt
Well-known
Now I know why Leica techs are busy
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
CRR in Luton look after Betty's M and have a good reputation.
crocker
Newbie
You will not go far wrong giving Graham Playford a ring tel 02073945060 He has been repairing Leicas ,Hasselblad, Sinar ect ect for years and is used by most of the photographers I know , as a guide for cost he charged £100 to repair clean and fix a few dents in my much used M2
hans voralberg
Veteran
Where is he based in ? Might be a good alternative to CRR as the man is up to his neck with backlog
aniMal
Well-known
If you really want to go at it yourself, I have a parts M2 with a delaminated rangefinder lying around... But I suppose you´ll be fine just reassembling and adjusting yours, it is not too hard with manuals and some dedication.
It was far more demanding/exiting when I started working on my own gear in the mid 90´s, as there were no online manuals or such
If you have the inclination and time on hand, it makes for a really special & good feeling using an M that you maintain yourself! I painted my M2 black and did some basic repairs, worked just great until the rangefinder delaminated...
It was far more demanding/exiting when I started working on my own gear in the mid 90´s, as there were no online manuals or such
If you have the inclination and time on hand, it makes for a really special & good feeling using an M that you maintain yourself! I painted my M2 black and did some basic repairs, worked just great until the rangefinder delaminated...
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Jonathan, I have the manual of which Ron speaks. It does tell you how to adjust the R/F of the M2, but it assumes that you have special equipment.