Lilserenity
Well-known
I have been wondering which forum to post this in, the Leica M8/M8.2 one or this one (the plain Jane Leica M one.) I decided on this one as I am presently an M2 owner and the following are comparisons...
I was invited very kindly by Black & White Photography magazine (in the UK) to take part in a reader workshop today, based in London to play and shoot with a Leica M8 (M8.2 really but hey ho!) which was something of great interest to me. I have no way of affording one at the moment or in the future (never say never) so I was never going to come away and want to part with my M2 and move on to an M8.
I confess I was more interested in the lenses we would be shooting with as aside from my Summar, I don't have any other Leica glass and again in honesty I won't have this year.
Some general impressions of the M8 then from someone who loves working with film. It's a great camera. The Internet is a great place for people with small grievances to blow them up out of all proportion. The M8 however is a great camera, one of the few digital cameras which I could pick up and enjoy shooting, potentially.
It's actually minorly bigger than an M2, and whilst very very well built, I'd still say there was just a slight favouring towards the M2's build. That's not to say the M8 is bad, it's excellent, but the older M's are often regarded as being in class of their own.
The downside for me, was to some degree the reason I have stuck with film, e.g. the fiddling with menus to set things like ISOs and the general navigation of the camera which whilst very good, is something I am so glad I don't have on my M2. The ISO performance however was great, ISO 1250 and 2500 were great - clean but not in a clinical manner. Like having lots of very well developed and less grainy Neopan 1600 on tap
I was surprised that the ISO's were 'only' 160, 320, 640, 1250 and 2500 (from my playing around) but at 160 you get such clean files, any slower would be unnecessary, especially with a top shutter speed of 1/4000th.
The handling is like any other M, not Canon or Nikon SLR ergonomics but solid, familiar and apart from the advance lever, much the same, in fact identical. Weight wise, I think the M8 was ever so slightly lighter than my M2.
The lens I used most was a 35mm Summicron, great lens. That said, I have a funny feeling I might be the only person ever who says they prefer to focussing of my Ultron (Voigtlander!!) to the tab on the Summicron which I found a little tricky at first, got used to it, but found I snapped into focus quicker with the non-tabbed Ultron.
This might sound like I'm on a self preservation trip, I cannot emphasise enough how much I loved the M8 and if I had that kind of money, yes I would buy one tomorrow without hesitation.
The layout on top is nice and simple, an integrated battery and frame counter, and a nice positive off, single, cotinious and self timer switch, with the shutter release. That took some getting used to, no film to advance!
The M8.2 I was using had the grip which I found excellent and I'd like one for my M2 having now used an M with one.
Overall I thought it was a great bit of kit with a couple of caveats, one which is practice makes perfect and the second might just be me...
1. Exposure. Av mode is great, shoot away e.g. at f/8 and you can get some great shots. That said, I'm very used to how my MR meter meters and the latitude of BW neg film and its clear that you do need to meter diligently and I often ended up in manual mode but the Auto mode was definitely a welcome feature, one I wouldn't baulk at if someone asked if I wanted it on my M2!
2. Rangefinder patch. On the two M8.2's I used, I found the rangefinder patch a bit dimmer than on my M2, and a few times I couldn't pick out whether I had attained focus or not. This might just be me but on a couple of occasions, same spot, tried the M2 and found the patch just that bit clearer where the M8's seemed to be a little more 'vague.'
I'll probably get a kicking for the latter, but it was the one thing I felt a little bit "oh" about with the M8 which is as I say a truly excellent piece of equipment. I'd soon get used to it, but I know what I have with my M2. Maybe I need a fusion of the two. I believe they call it an M7
In all it was a great day and the Leica chaps were lovely. I'm not really all airs and graces, and certainly not the stereotype Leica user I'm sure but they were great and very inspirational. If I worked in a professional capacity, the M8 would probably be my camera.
One thing I was really interested in was the colour output which was very natural. One of the things I will miss when Kodachrome kicks the bucket; but thank goodness for Provia and Portra; but seriously the results out of the M8 were fab. 10 megapixels and 1.3 crop factor or not, it was an impressive camera.
But I still like my M2 more The viewfinder is much less cluttered and I like that as well.
I just thought I'd pass on to those who are thinking of going from a film M to an M8 or supplementing their film M, the M8 is very much worth looking at.
Anyway this was my favourite shot from the M8 today:
'Relief' - Covent Garden, London
I was invited very kindly by Black & White Photography magazine (in the UK) to take part in a reader workshop today, based in London to play and shoot with a Leica M8 (M8.2 really but hey ho!) which was something of great interest to me. I have no way of affording one at the moment or in the future (never say never) so I was never going to come away and want to part with my M2 and move on to an M8.
I confess I was more interested in the lenses we would be shooting with as aside from my Summar, I don't have any other Leica glass and again in honesty I won't have this year.
Some general impressions of the M8 then from someone who loves working with film. It's a great camera. The Internet is a great place for people with small grievances to blow them up out of all proportion. The M8 however is a great camera, one of the few digital cameras which I could pick up and enjoy shooting, potentially.
It's actually minorly bigger than an M2, and whilst very very well built, I'd still say there was just a slight favouring towards the M2's build. That's not to say the M8 is bad, it's excellent, but the older M's are often regarded as being in class of their own.
The downside for me, was to some degree the reason I have stuck with film, e.g. the fiddling with menus to set things like ISOs and the general navigation of the camera which whilst very good, is something I am so glad I don't have on my M2. The ISO performance however was great, ISO 1250 and 2500 were great - clean but not in a clinical manner. Like having lots of very well developed and less grainy Neopan 1600 on tap
I was surprised that the ISO's were 'only' 160, 320, 640, 1250 and 2500 (from my playing around) but at 160 you get such clean files, any slower would be unnecessary, especially with a top shutter speed of 1/4000th.The handling is like any other M, not Canon or Nikon SLR ergonomics but solid, familiar and apart from the advance lever, much the same, in fact identical. Weight wise, I think the M8 was ever so slightly lighter than my M2.
The lens I used most was a 35mm Summicron, great lens. That said, I have a funny feeling I might be the only person ever who says they prefer to focussing of my Ultron (Voigtlander!!) to the tab on the Summicron which I found a little tricky at first, got used to it, but found I snapped into focus quicker with the non-tabbed Ultron.
This might sound like I'm on a self preservation trip, I cannot emphasise enough how much I loved the M8 and if I had that kind of money, yes I would buy one tomorrow without hesitation.
The layout on top is nice and simple, an integrated battery and frame counter, and a nice positive off, single, cotinious and self timer switch, with the shutter release. That took some getting used to, no film to advance!
The M8.2 I was using had the grip which I found excellent and I'd like one for my M2 having now used an M with one.
Overall I thought it was a great bit of kit with a couple of caveats, one which is practice makes perfect and the second might just be me...
1. Exposure. Av mode is great, shoot away e.g. at f/8 and you can get some great shots. That said, I'm very used to how my MR meter meters and the latitude of BW neg film and its clear that you do need to meter diligently and I often ended up in manual mode but the Auto mode was definitely a welcome feature, one I wouldn't baulk at if someone asked if I wanted it on my M2!
2. Rangefinder patch. On the two M8.2's I used, I found the rangefinder patch a bit dimmer than on my M2, and a few times I couldn't pick out whether I had attained focus or not. This might just be me but on a couple of occasions, same spot, tried the M2 and found the patch just that bit clearer where the M8's seemed to be a little more 'vague.'
I'll probably get a kicking for the latter, but it was the one thing I felt a little bit "oh" about with the M8 which is as I say a truly excellent piece of equipment. I'd soon get used to it, but I know what I have with my M2. Maybe I need a fusion of the two. I believe they call it an M7
In all it was a great day and the Leica chaps were lovely. I'm not really all airs and graces, and certainly not the stereotype Leica user I'm sure but they were great and very inspirational. If I worked in a professional capacity, the M8 would probably be my camera.
One thing I was really interested in was the colour output which was very natural. One of the things I will miss when Kodachrome kicks the bucket; but thank goodness for Provia and Portra; but seriously the results out of the M8 were fab. 10 megapixels and 1.3 crop factor or not, it was an impressive camera.
But I still like my M2 more
The viewfinder is much less cluttered and I like that as well.I just thought I'd pass on to those who are thinking of going from a film M to an M8 or supplementing their film M, the M8 is very much worth looking at.
Anyway this was my favourite shot from the M8 today:
'Relief' - Covent Garden, London
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Nice shot.
Bear in mind that you can't (meaningfully) reset ISO on an M2. I find resetting ISO via the menu easier than changing film. And cheaper. But I still like Ilford better for B+W.
Tashi delek,
R.
Bear in mind that you can't (meaningfully) reset ISO on an M2. I find resetting ISO via the menu easier than changing film. And cheaper. But I still like Ilford better for B+W.
Tashi delek,
R.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Very good point, I'm still very much in film mindset! It takes a while I'd say to start thinking you don't have those limitations. So point taken! I only changed the ISO once, in the café next door to R.G.Lewis' at the end! I guess it didn't occur to me to do so! I'm so used to having the one speed and working the shutter speed/aperture around that!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Now I imagine a different scenario ... 'A day with an M2 for an M8 user!'
The camera would feel so small ... the advance lever that so many M8 users have craved is there (no need for a 'thumbsup') ... you get to use your favourite meter or sunny sixteen ... you get to experience the exposure latitude and beauty of film ... you're $4000.00 better of financially ... you get to use the Leica users secret handshake when you meet other M owners! (not the fake digital handshake)
:angel: :angel: :angel:
The camera would feel so small ... the advance lever that so many M8 users have craved is there (no need for a 'thumbsup') ... you get to use your favourite meter or sunny sixteen ... you get to experience the exposure latitude and beauty of film ... you're $4000.00 better of financially ... you get to use the Leica users secret handshake when you meet other M owners! (not the fake digital handshake)
:angel: :angel: :angel:
kully
Happy Snapper
When I got the M8 I thought exactly the same thing - "ISO 1250..... Like having lots of very well developed and less grainy Neopan 1600 on tap"
Lilserenity
Well-known
This secret handshake you speak of?
Like I say I really liked the M8, but I like the M2 even more for its excellent rangefinder patch's contrast and the lack of clutter on the viewfinder which for me is a real plus point on the M2 but I'm sure I'd get used to it.
Vicky
adavis47
Well-known
Thanks Lilserenity, good read. Had to laugh a bit though about the "fiddling with menus." Compared to other digital cameras, compact or SLR, the M8 is lacking in menu options (thankfully), and setting ISO, once learned, is very quick. I do miss the size of the M2 and oh, that wonderful shutter!
szekiat
Well-known
thankfully i have both...
Lilserenity
Well-known
I likewise found the M8 to have a nice shutter too (why do they put the i and o next to each other... ahem :angel
-- a different sound to the M2 but still very nice.The menu system wasn't as bad as I've probably made it sound, I liked the idea of presets, I could see myself setting up a couple of B&W profiles and a couple of colour ones for example.
That said though, the M8 was nice from the point of view that there was very little hunting around the menus compared to some, if I used one extensively I'd have some presets sussed and I'd know the camera inside out
Vicky
Austerby
Well-known
Thanks for the article, most useful. I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford an M8 but have decided not to get one. I'm not quite sure why and I've not even handled one - it's more that I really like using film and the whole process that surrounds it. I have digital cameras and they're great but to me Leica's are for film. Your article has helped reinforce this feeling as I did feel a little wavering recently. I've no doubts about the capability of the M8: it's just not for me.
Steve Litt
Well-known
Thanks I enjoyed that.I subscribe to B/W magazine and will look forward to some more
great shots like the one here.I have a RD-1 and a M2 when I use the M2 I really miss not being able to change ISO .I would like to try the M8 but I am happy with what I have and like you I do it for fun not to make a living.
Regards
Steve
great shots like the one here.I have a RD-1 and a M2 when I use the M2 I really miss not being able to change ISO .I would like to try the M8 but I am happy with what I have and like you I do it for fun not to make a living.
Regards
Steve
Lilserenity
Well-known
I'm glad you found it useful. I think the aspect of enjoying developing my films and printing in the darkroom are on many counts the most important reason to stick with film. Apart from the RD1, M8 and the odd digital camera (Olympus' 4/3rds SLRs are not too bad, and maybe one or two Panasonics) -- another decent reason is the feel and usability of the camera itself. I prefer a more classic handling approach, I thrashed that one out on my blog not long ago: http://lilserenity.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/digital-cameras-need-some-style/
I'm glad I went in with an open mind as to what the M8 could be and I came away surprised and felt it was indeed a better camera than I expected, but it also assured me that my favouring of film and its process wasn't through stubborness but definitely did have valid reasons.
Vicky
Lilserenity
Well-known
Hi Steve, It should be a good article as I was the only M and seemingly 35mm film user, the two others: one used large format (4x5) and the other a digital SLR so it should provide some interesting viewpoints!
Regarding the ISO, I can see what you mean; it could indeed get you that shot that you either miss or have to put off for another day. Likewise you could argue the same about shooting b+w and colour, you can switch easily with digital but right this very moment I have a 1/3rd exposed roll of Tri-X in the M2, so to switch to colour is a bit of a faff but it can be done. So definitely I can see the convenience.
That said, at the photography group that I hang out with, one did say that by sticking to one film, at least you have more of a chance of consistency which is a fairly good point; not quite a knockout punch in the vs. changeable ISO/colour stakes but none the less, a good point.
That said though, it's never really bugged me at all. I will take a roll out half way through if I really need to and it's never posed any problems.
That said I was very much in the film mode still when shooting as I was very conservative of when I fired that shutter! But that's hardly failed me I think.
Vicky
Steve Litt
Well-known
Hi Vicky,My RD-1 is always in B/W mode,Raw and 200 or 400 iso normally and 90% of the time I use a 40mm Summicron (screen turned in).I totally agree with the one film concept.For years I only used HP5 and in fact my M2 has never had a color film in it (since I owned it).Its only since digital that I am on occasion seduced into color.Keep on doing what you are doing -its great.
Regards
Steve
Regards
Steve
Lilserenity
Well-known
Thanks Steve for the kind comments. I have fits and spurts of what I shoot, so sometimes I don't shoot colour for months and then suddenly (especially spring with its multitude) of colour I go crazy for it. My big project at the moment was intended to be a black and white project but the Kodachromes are coming out so well that it's likely to be entirely in colour. It's probably fair to say I was impressed with the M8 colour in part due to the photos being viewed on a 24" iMac. Widescreen and good colour saturation really made them pop, where as on my second hand £5 17" Dell CRT, things aren't so clever!
That said, was in the 'darkroom' last night, doing a bit of split grade printing and was clearly reminded why I shoot film. So much fun! Let alone getting out the projector, some drinks and food and boring a whole bunch of friends and family to death over Tedious Slideshow No. 245
I have fits and spurts of what I shoot, so sometimes I don't shoot colour for months and then suddenly (especially spring with its multitude) of colour I go crazy for it. My big project at the moment was intended to be a black and white project but the Kodachromes are coming out so well that it's likely to be entirely in colour. It's probably fair to say I was impressed with the M8 colour in part due to the photos being viewed on a 24" iMac. Widescreen and good colour saturation really made them pop, where as on my second hand £5 17" Dell CRT, things aren't so clever!That said, was in the 'darkroom' last night, doing a bit of split grade printing and was clearly reminded why I shoot film. So much fun! Let alone getting out the projector, some drinks and food and boring a whole bunch of friends and family to death over Tedious Slideshow No. 245