A question of Framelines

Pavel+

Pavel+

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Well, I spent all of my money! I've long been on the fence about the virtues of rangefinders, that is to say that I have been intrigued but could never decide if the style would be for me. I have finnaly taken the plunge and have ordered an M8.

After the shock of the M8 wears off of my bank account 🙂 I would like to buy two or three Leica lenses but right now I have not a single lens for the M8. I was thinking that I would order one Voightlander lens for the meanwhile. My question and my dillema is about the frame lines.
I am confused about which frame lines come up and how it relates to the 1.33 crop factor of the M8. If I buy the Voight 35 f 1.4 ... which lines come up - the 35 lines? Do the framelines in the M8 take into account the crop factor where perhaps the 50 frame line come up since the 35 is almot a 50?

What about the 40 f 1.4 ... would that be a problem? Any help would be appreciated. I sold my D700 and a few lenses to finance this so this is a one way ticket for me. After so long sitting on the fence I'm glad I'm taking the leap. Now I have much learning to do. 🙂
 
framelines

framelines

Your M8 framelines will match the lugs on your lenses with the crop factor accmodated, so if you put a Leica 28, 35, 50 it will bring up the matching framelines, as will a similar M-mount CV, Zeiss, etc.

However, with the 40 CV, if new, it will bring up the 50 framelines. I am not sure if on the M8, which is closer, 35 or 50. If the mount frameline lug has been filed down by a previous owner, it might bring up the 35 lines. Either frameline will work once you preview at some different lengths.

With RF's, it's not that critical. For example, I use the 75 on an RD1 with only framelines for 50 and I accomodate very quickly. I've even used the 75 on film with no 75 lines (or digital preview - M6 with MP finder), and everything was fine.

Pavel+ said:
Well, I spent all of my money! I've long been on the fence about the virtues of rangefinders, that is to say that I have been intrigued but could never decide if the style would be for me. I have finnaly taken the plunge and have ordered an M8.

After the shock of the M8 wears off of my bank account 🙂 I would like to buy two or three Leica lenses but right now I have not a single lens for the M8. I was thinking that I would order one Voightlander lens for the meanwhile. My question and my dillema is about the frame lines.
I am confused about which frame lines come up and how it relates to the 1.33 crop factor of the M8. If I buy the Voight 35 f 1.4 ... which lines come up - the 35 lines? Do the framelines in the M8 take into account the crop factor where perhaps the 50 frame line come up since the 35 is almot a 50?

What about the 40 f 1.4 ... would that be a problem? Any help would be appreciated. I sold my D700 and a few lenses to finance this so this is a one way ticket for me. After so long sitting on the fence I'm glad I'm taking the leap. Now I have much learning to do. 🙂
Click to expand...
 
The framelines indicate the field of view of the focal length mounted on the camera for that camera, irrespective of the model. There is no mental calculation required of the user. The lines are more or less of the same accuracy on the M7 and the M8.2.
The framelines on the M8 are: 24-28-35-50-75-90
 
I think your framelines question has been answered.

So now onto your choice of lenses.

For the CV 40 f/1.4, please note that it has a love it or hate bokeh, depending on your taste. It can be a bit jarring at times.

For all CV lenses sometimes the QC is not as good as consistent as one would hope for. Give the lens a test if you can, to check you've got a keeper. The 35 f/1.2 is excellent but its a bit of a brick to carry around.

You might look at Zeiss. If you're looking for 35, the Biogon is pretty good, generally has more contrast, is more expensive than CV, but at least you don't have to remortgage your house or sell off your 1st born😱 as you would with the Leica Lux or Crons. The Leica Summarits have been getting good reviews, they're just a bit slower, and a bit more expensive....

Best
Rob
 
Thanks everyone. The camera will be here next wednesday and I'm trying to decide between several choices now for which lens first. My choices are down to a new 28 f2.0 CV, the Zeiss Planar 2.0 or an outside chance of a good used the 90 f 2.0 Leica from a local dealer at a good price. I realize that those are all over the place 🙂.My first choice would be the Zeiss but what I don't care for is that the Zeiss is different in that it uses 1/3 stops and I kind of know that I will want all my lenses the same in that regard. I think that 1/2 stops are much better, but mostly I simply want to get used to the same movement.

Any ideas between those three choices. Bokeh is fairly important to me.
Going from slrs this is like starting all over again.

Not mortgaging the house, baycrest, is something I'm in tune with. 🙂 I wonder how good the Zeiss lenses are.

Once again .... thanks everyone!
 
First, welcome to the world of RF. With a Leica, I doubt very much if you would regret your choice. A note of consolation: your M8 will hold its value should you ever decide to let it go. 😉

A 35mm, which crops to almost 50mm on your M8, is likely going to be your default lens for most occasions. I personally find that CV lenses often make good substitutes to Leicas, with minor shortcomings that in some/most cases are quite acceptable for lenses sometimes for a quarter of the price or less. Zeiss lenses, as good as they (and they are), usually perform poorer than Leicas, and sometimes CVs too, are almost always bigger and heavier, and though somewhat less costly than Leicas, are always a lot more expensive than CVs. I have found that whenever I am looking for lenses of different focal lengths, the Zeiss option always rules itself out by those points I mentioned.

In any case, you'll find that most lenses made for your M8 are excellent - most times, it comes down to a matter of personal preferences. Should you require more literature on the matter, there are plenty of reviewers online where you can find out more about the lenses you're interested in.

Enjoy your M8! 🙂
 
The strangest thing I found when I first got into Leica M cameras a long, long time ago, was that though my most-used lens up until then was a 50, on the M4 it quickly became the 35. It puzzled me for decades, until on a whim I picked up a cherry M3, and suddenly any time I had it in my hand I was back using a 50 most of the time. My theory is that it has to do with whatever is the largest frameline area I can comfortably see in the finder. Eg, I never warmed up to the 28 on my M6 because I couldn't see the whole area in one look, but with the M8 the 28 is the largest framelines I can see well, and my most-used lens has become the 28. Now that I understand it, I force myself to ignore that tendency, and choose lenses based on how the final shot will look, as I would with a reflex.
 
I can really relate to that, how it can change depending on how it flows. I have also noticed that I seem to have changed how I "see" over the last year or so - and that in part helped me finnaly make the move to a rangefinder. I used to think that 50 was some kind of ultra-wide 🙂 and felt comfortable from 135 to 300. Somehow with no conscious effort everything changed and I now like the 25 - 60 range best.

All I have left of my Nikon gear is the Zeiss 25, the nikon 35 and the nikon 60. I had slowly sold it all, a bit perplexed how my tastes had, on their own volition, changed. It's kind of exciting.

So, for a first lens, taking into account the advice here about the 90 being limiting for an only lens; I've ordered the Zeiss 50 f2.0 Planar and also the VC 25 f 4.0.

I had a bit of trouble deciding on the second lens. looking at pictures and the manual examples of the framelines it seemed that probably the 28 framelines may be more intuitive than the 24, but in the end the insecurity of coverage won out and I opted for the widest lens that the viewfinder can handle.

I don't think that the focal length experience from 35 slr's will necessary carry over. I guess its a whole new ball-game and that there is not likely any way of preventing the occasional mistake. Oh well, here is to going broke! 😀 Like I said, its quite exciting, I hope I can adapt to the new style.
 
Loss of Security

Loss of Security

Now that I've begun to carry it almost everywhere, I'm getting acquainted with my M8.2. I feel less confident about framing shots and metering with it than I do with my M6. I have to think reversal. With my M6 and B&W film I shot for the shadows. I carry a Lunasix.
I have a 2nd battery. They don't deliver power like the Nikons. I bought 3, 4 GIG San Disk cards. An OCZ HC 4 GIG card is giving me trouble. It may be that a standard card would work better, however, I thought the firmware update made the M8 HC compatible. On the other hand, it may be the brand.
I have several early lenses: 21/2.8, [60mm ∅], 28/2.8, 35/1.4, 50/2, [collapsible], 90/2.8, [tele]. I plan to get a CV15 and faster lenses. I carry the 35 most of the time.
I find DNG format very forgiving with exposure. I'm very happy to be able to use my Leica glass on a digital camera.
I picked up a converting ring for the Lumix G1. I'm itching to get one to play with.
 
Pavel+ said:
I can really relate to that, how it can change depending on how it flows. I have also noticed that I seem to have changed how I "see" over the last year or so - and that in part helped me finnaly make the move to a rangefinder. I used to think that 50 was some kind of ultra-wide 🙂 and felt comfortable from 135 to 300. Somehow with no conscious effort everything changed and I now like the 25 - 60 range best.

All I have left of my Nikon gear is the Zeiss 25, the nikon 35 and the nikon 60. I had slowly sold it all, a bit perplexed how my tastes had, on their own volition, changed. It's kind of exciting.

So, for a first lens, taking into account the advice here about the 90 being limiting for an only lens; I've ordered the Zeiss 50 f2.0 Planar and also the VC 25 f 4.0.

I had a bit of trouble deciding on the second lens. looking at pictures and the manual examples of the framelines it seemed that probably the 28 framelines may be more intuitive than the 24, but in the end the insecurity of coverage won out and I opted for the widest lens that the viewfinder can handle.

I don't think that the focal length experience from 35 slr's will necessary carry over. I guess its a whole new ball-game and that there is not likely any way of preventing the occasional mistake. Oh well, here is to going broke! 😀 Like I said, its quite exciting, I hope I can adapt to the new style.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that a 50mm crops to a 66.5mm FOV on an M8. To get a 50mm FOV, your lens would have to be a 35mm, which is about my default lens on the M8. As to which, you will learn a lot from reviewers like Sean Reid and Ken Rockwell and what they publish on their web sites. Enjoy! 😉
 
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