hyokjae
Member
Hi All,
I used Diafine to develop my first b&w film (Arista Edu Ultra 200) and it was a partial success ( I had some hiccups in loading the film...). After reading some threads here, the stand development using Rodinal sounds very interesting to me. From what I gathered from the threads, I can summarize the stand development process as followings with some questions:
1. Exposed film in a development tank.
2. Pour Rodinal solution (1+100) diluted in tap water into the tank. Initial agitation for 1 minute. Agitate for 30 sec every 30 minutes during 1-2 hours (How long (1 or 2 hours) should I do it?, What kind of agitation is recommended?)
2. Stop bath using tap water for 5 minutes. (Should I use "stop bath chemical? or is it OK to use tap water?)
3. Fixer for 6-8 minutes - what kind of agitation to use??
4. Photo Flo: 2ml Photo Flo + 400ml tap water for 1 minute
5. Hang to dry.
Am I missing something?? Please guide me!!
Thanks in advance.
-hyokjae
I used Diafine to develop my first b&w film (Arista Edu Ultra 200) and it was a partial success ( I had some hiccups in loading the film...). After reading some threads here, the stand development using Rodinal sounds very interesting to me. From what I gathered from the threads, I can summarize the stand development process as followings with some questions:
1. Exposed film in a development tank.
2. Pour Rodinal solution (1+100) diluted in tap water into the tank. Initial agitation for 1 minute. Agitate for 30 sec every 30 minutes during 1-2 hours (How long (1 or 2 hours) should I do it?, What kind of agitation is recommended?)
2. Stop bath using tap water for 5 minutes. (Should I use "stop bath chemical? or is it OK to use tap water?)
3. Fixer for 6-8 minutes - what kind of agitation to use??
4. Photo Flo: 2ml Photo Flo + 400ml tap water for 1 minute
5. Hang to dry.
Am I missing something?? Please guide me!!
Thanks in advance.
-hyokjae
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Here is how I stand develop with Rodinal 1:100...
Rodinal 1:100 Stand Development
How this will work with Arista Edu Ultra 200, I have no idea. I settled on using Tri-X and the Efke emulsions with stand development.
Rodinal 1:100 Stand Development
How this will work with Arista Edu Ultra 200, I have no idea. I settled on using Tri-X and the Efke emulsions with stand development.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I'm all for a little experimentation, but this early in your processing experience, my advice would be to perfect your technique with a regular film/dev. combination, especially as you say that your first attempt was only a partial success. In my opinion the benefits of 'stand' development are negligable - I have never felt the need to spend two hours developing a film, when perfectly good, printable negatives can be hanging to dry in half an hour!.
Cheers, Dave.
Cheers, Dave.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Dave,
I agree with you that as a beginner, the original poster should master 'normal' development before starting to even think about stand development, I forgot to mention this in my first post.
There is no better combination to learn with than Tri-X and D-76...
I agree with you that as a beginner, the original poster should master 'normal' development before starting to even think about stand development, I forgot to mention this in my first post.
There is no better combination to learn with than Tri-X and D-76...
hyokjae
Member
Thanks for the link above. It was very helpful.
OK, I am open and am listening to your advices, and I will go back to master the normal development - Arista Premirum + Diafine or Rodinal.
Thanks.
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
I have to agree that as a beginner, it's best to use a one film/one developer combination until you feel you really have it down. But I don't think Diafine is a good developer for this. For one thing, I don't think Diafine is a great developer. I know many of you love it, and I know it always produces reasonable results- but I find it to be a sort-of "lowest common denominator" developer. I've never seen any film/speed combination for which I could not get better results using some other chemistry. I only use Diafine when I don't know what speed (or speeds) a given roll was shot with, because I know Diafine will always produce SOMETHING. But if I know how the film was shot, and know it was all exposed at the same EI, I'll always choose another developer for better results.
The other reason I'd cite against using Diafine as a beginner is that Diafine encourages (or at least tolerates) sloppy technique. Temperature and precise timing isn't very important with Diafine. This is convenient, and some prefer it for this very reason- but it's a little like learning to drive on an automatic transmission vs. a stick shift. I feel that one learns better when one learns more demanding process. Developers that really do respond to changes in time, temperature, and agitation will teach the beginning film processor more about the whole process faster- and they will give better results than Diafine.
So, to get back to your original post, your basic outline for stand development above looks sound; and if you want to try this as your starter combination, go ahead- but I would suggest you get good at using a "normal" process first. I love Rodinal, and certainly think it's a good choice for a first developer to get comfortable with- but I'd suggest that you try a normal process like 1:50, with "normal" agitation (typically this means gentle inversions for the first 45 seconds or so, then for 5 seconds per minute thereafter); find starting processing times at the massive development chart, or your film manufacturers recommendations, and go from there.
Whatever chemistry you choose, use it with one film at one speed until you fell like you know it well, and have a handle on what all the various factors will do. Then branch out and start messing around. Good luck, and have fun, and as Sal D. used to say- "Happy Snaps!"
The other reason I'd cite against using Diafine as a beginner is that Diafine encourages (or at least tolerates) sloppy technique. Temperature and precise timing isn't very important with Diafine. This is convenient, and some prefer it for this very reason- but it's a little like learning to drive on an automatic transmission vs. a stick shift. I feel that one learns better when one learns more demanding process. Developers that really do respond to changes in time, temperature, and agitation will teach the beginning film processor more about the whole process faster- and they will give better results than Diafine.
So, to get back to your original post, your basic outline for stand development above looks sound; and if you want to try this as your starter combination, go ahead- but I would suggest you get good at using a "normal" process first. I love Rodinal, and certainly think it's a good choice for a first developer to get comfortable with- but I'd suggest that you try a normal process like 1:50, with "normal" agitation (typically this means gentle inversions for the first 45 seconds or so, then for 5 seconds per minute thereafter); find starting processing times at the massive development chart, or your film manufacturers recommendations, and go from there.
Whatever chemistry you choose, use it with one film at one speed until you fell like you know it well, and have a handle on what all the various factors will do. Then branch out and start messing around. Good luck, and have fun, and as Sal D. used to say- "Happy Snaps!"
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Hate to put a finger in the cake here, but I have never managed to get anything developed right before trying Rodinal 1:100 stand dev.
Although I have to admit I have never tried the above mentioned combo. There's some 20-year overdue Tri-X on my shelf here, but I will probably soup it in Rodinal again, since that's standing right next to it...
ed1k
Well-known
Interesting nobody pointed that there should be a film wash between steps 3 and 4. Tap water run through dev tank or interchanged a few times, for about 10-15 minutes. Nobody's washing film after fixer?
Cheers,
Ed
Cheers,
Ed
MarkoKovacevic
Well-known
Stand development is great for when you don't want to be there during the dev stage, you can leave it and forget about it. It's also great for toy cameras such as the Holga since it evens out exposures (less 'blowout'.)
I normally do it 1-100 for a hour, no agitation. Extended time doesn't really matter that much, after a hour its developed and its not gonna develop any more.
I normally do it 1-100 for a hour, no agitation. Extended time doesn't really matter that much, after a hour its developed and its not gonna develop any more.
planetjoe
Just some guy, you know?
I'd like to suggest that stand development might be viewed as a reasonable starting point for a beginner, as long as the inherent risks of technique are taken into account.
The reason I'd say this is that, as a beginner, I found more difficulty (and anxiety) to be associated with the short, "fast" dev times associated with normal dilutions of D-76, say, than with the low-agitation approach I use with HC110h (1:63). This particular brew, for example, gives great results with 400TX @ 1600, developing for 20:00 at 70F.
I've since worked my way up in speed to where I can be more comfortable with a 5-8 minute dev time, with more frequent agitation. Recently did Efke KB100 in Rodinal 1:50 for 10:30 (okay, not such a fast dev) and it worked out rather nicely.
To the OP (and ed1k): I'd definitely do a quick wash after the fix; in fact, my specific workflow never mixes tap water with photo chems; rather, each chemical step is followed by a quick wash with distilled water. I also use hypo-clear.
Note that I am terribly anal, and this route will certainly not fit the needs of others. I simply don't trust the quality of my tap water (or my technique, yet).
Enjoy your developing work - I find there's a significant zen quality to it.
Cheers,
--joe.
The reason I'd say this is that, as a beginner, I found more difficulty (and anxiety) to be associated with the short, "fast" dev times associated with normal dilutions of D-76, say, than with the low-agitation approach I use with HC110h (1:63). This particular brew, for example, gives great results with 400TX @ 1600, developing for 20:00 at 70F.
I've since worked my way up in speed to where I can be more comfortable with a 5-8 minute dev time, with more frequent agitation. Recently did Efke KB100 in Rodinal 1:50 for 10:30 (okay, not such a fast dev) and it worked out rather nicely.
To the OP (and ed1k): I'd definitely do a quick wash after the fix; in fact, my specific workflow never mixes tap water with photo chems; rather, each chemical step is followed by a quick wash with distilled water. I also use hypo-clear.
Note that I am terribly anal, and this route will certainly not fit the needs of others. I simply don't trust the quality of my tap water (or my technique, yet).
Enjoy your developing work - I find there's a significant zen quality to it.
Cheers,
--joe.
AdQuo
Newbie
Hi all!
I have first heard about stand developement yersterday and today searcho for it on the net. So I found this forum. Great!!!
I would like to try stand developement and the post by P.Lynn Miller is fabulous!!! I would like to try this in my next development.
If you don´t mind, I would like to ask a question... I´m using the developer liquid three times, adding 1,5 minutes each consecutive time; i.e 9 minutes, 10,5 minutes and 12 minutes (20ºC). First question; do you add that time? more? less? Second question... with stand development the developer liquid used is less than in 9 minutes development so, do you also recycle it or waste it each time? If you recycle it, how much time do you add for consecutive processes?
Thanks for all in advance!
PS. Please excuse me for my English, I haven´t used for years!
I have first heard about stand developement yersterday and today searcho for it on the net. So I found this forum. Great!!!
I would like to try stand developement and the post by P.Lynn Miller is fabulous!!! I would like to try this in my next development.
If you don´t mind, I would like to ask a question... I´m using the developer liquid three times, adding 1,5 minutes each consecutive time; i.e 9 minutes, 10,5 minutes and 12 minutes (20ºC). First question; do you add that time? more? less? Second question... with stand development the developer liquid used is less than in 9 minutes development so, do you also recycle it or waste it each time? If you recycle it, how much time do you add for consecutive processes?
Thanks for all in advance!
PS. Please excuse me for my English, I haven´t used for years!
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Generally when using Rodinal 1:100 in stand development, there is no re-use, the chemicals have no strength left after being used once. This due to the low dilution.
When developing only one film in a two-film tank, still use the amount for two films and you can use a second time for a second film. IMHO, this should be done in the next two days or so, else the Rodinal solution loses strength.
When developing only one film in a two-film tank, still use the amount for two films and you can use a second time for a second film. IMHO, this should be done in the next two days or so, else the Rodinal solution loses strength.
oftheherd
Veteran
Welcome to RFF AdQuo!
I have Rodinal but haven't used it yet. Soon.
But I can tell you that Rodinal is a one time use developer. Mix up only what you need, use it and throw it away. Not so with Stop Bath or Fixer of course.
EDIT: Well, I see an experienced use has jumped in while I was posting, with better advice based on experience, which as I said, I don't have yet.
I have Rodinal but haven't used it yet. Soon.
But I can tell you that Rodinal is a one time use developer. Mix up only what you need, use it and throw it away. Not so with Stop Bath or Fixer of course.
EDIT: Well, I see an experienced use has jumped in while I was posting, with better advice based on experience, which as I said, I don't have yet.
bwcolor
Veteran
I started at the same time that the thread cited above was circulating. I've run many films through stand and developed a basic idea of what I was getting. I'm now trying Xtol with various films and will soon be using T-Max Developer. Most of my shooting over the last six months has been film/developer tests. The pattern that I've seen is that XTOL produces more pleasing results(vs. Rodinal stand), to my eyes, as the EI increases. I really like Rodinal/Stand for slower films like Acros. So, I'm not so sure that it is important what you do when you start, just so you record everything and are willing to be OK with less than stellar results during this learning process. I'm going to give T-Max a try with 6x7 Delta 3200@1600 and 35mm Neopan 1600@800. I didn't like the grain structure with Tri-X when pushed in Rodinal. I would be curious if anyone here has tried Rodinal stand development with Tri-X at EI 200-250?
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Completely agree with Dave.
I extensively tested Tri-X with Rodinal, and found no difference after 30-45 minutes, and tested 1, 2 and 3 hours. So that's my longest development time. Just for setting camera to 1600, with some shadow loss, but beautiful tone. I prefer setting it to 400 and give it 18 minutes with a few inversions every minute for good contrast in soft light.
Cheers,
Juan
Obrecht
Member
I use Rodinal 1+100 with Fomapan 100 in stand development for almost 2 years now. Results are pleasing.
Moreover stand development evens out exposure mistakes, which can be helpful if you use unmetered cameras.
Berlin 2009, Leica M2+ Jupiter 8, Fomapan 100, Rodinal 1+100 stand development for 1 hour (first minute agitation).
Moreover stand development evens out exposure mistakes, which can be helpful if you use unmetered cameras.
Berlin 2009, Leica M2+ Jupiter 8, Fomapan 100, Rodinal 1+100 stand development for 1 hour (first minute agitation).
AdQuo
Newbie
Hi. Have anyone tried stand development with 100 or 125 ISO film? If so, how long and how much developer?
sniki
Well-known
I moved to Rodinal stand development technique few years ago and I'm completely well-satisfied. I use the most TriX, LegacyPro 400 and Efke Ortho 25 films.
Rodinal 1:100 1 hour for TriX & LegacyPro 400 rated at 400, 1 hour 1/2 when rated at 800 and 2 hours when rated at 1600.
Rodinal 1:200 1 hour for Efke Ortho 25 at nominal speed, 40 minutes when rated at 12.
Rodinal 1:100 1 hour for TriX & LegacyPro 400 rated at 400, 1 hour 1/2 when rated at 800 and 2 hours when rated at 1600.
Rodinal 1:200 1 hour for Efke Ortho 25 at nominal speed, 40 minutes when rated at 12.
smk
Established
I tried stand development a couple of times, and the negatives come out with blown highlights. I suspect the problem is the dilution.
Is there a requirement of what is the minimum amount of developer that must be in the solution. I understand the 1+100, however, can you use that in say a 1-reel tank? or should a 1 reel be developed in a 1+100 solution in a 2-reel tank (i.e., more volume which means more developer around).
I am a bit confused about the 1+100 and the total volume of solution per roll of film that will be developed.
Thanks,
Savvas
Is there a requirement of what is the minimum amount of developer that must be in the solution. I understand the 1+100, however, can you use that in say a 1-reel tank? or should a 1 reel be developed in a 1+100 solution in a 2-reel tank (i.e., more volume which means more developer around).
I am a bit confused about the 1+100 and the total volume of solution per roll of film that will be developed.
Thanks,
Savvas
sniki
Well-known
When developing just one roll I use 300ml. of water with 3ml. of Rodinal (1:100) or 1,5ml. (1:200). I forgot to say that I always presoak my films in water for at least 2 minutes, before developing.