Tact...

The nature of the medium encourages us to slip into broadcast mode, rather than engaging in a conversation. The only feedback is written and it's delayed. There's none of the subtle and immediate feedback that channel and guide in-the-flesh conversations and allow us to make mid-course corrections. The non-verbal components of conversation, which are so important in conveying emotion, are completely absent online.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Juan,
1 How do others deal with other posters who are tactless to the point of boorish?

2 How do others respond when they are accused of being tactless/boorish, etc?

Is 'ignore' the safest bet? Or is there any other way to raise the (already extremely high) standards of civility of the forum?

Cheers.

R.
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I don't use the ignore feature of the forum software, I just ignore.
Unfortunately, there has been a lot of threads that degraded in the past, maybe less so recently. I guess 'ignore' is a good policy (but not ignore list), cause someone could just be having a bad day. If you experience reoccurring boorish or rude posts from someone, then I would imagine the best policy would be to advise the moderators and a warning be issued to the person. After n warnings, account suspension, kicked off, tar and feathers....

Cheers
Steven
 
wgerrard said:
The nature of the medium encourages us to slip into broadcast mode, rather than engaging in a conversation. The only feedback is written and it's delayed. There's none of the subtle and immediate feedback that channel and guide in-the-flesh conversations and allow us to make mid-course corrections. The non-verbal components of conversation, which are so important in conveying emotion, are completely absent online.
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Dear Bill,

Very true. This is made worse by the fact that I can't stand smilies and am not keen on emoticons. Both seem too self-consciously ironic when I use them, though I cheerfully accept that others can use them easily.

But it does sometimes seem -- and once again I do not exclude myself -- that not-so-subtle feedback is sometimes missed or even sometimes deliberately ignored.

Perhaps the geek poll from a few weeks ago is relevant here. Some people are permanent geeks, but I think most of us can slip into geek mode if the right buttons are pressed.

Cheers,

R.
 
I will endeavor to practice greater tact while posting, not because it could have a difference on photographic efforts, but because tact leads to more deliberate reflection, rather than emotional outbursts.

If I'm wrong, then at the very least greater tact will result in a more pleasant environment by my standards, of course. I prefer civility over its various alternatives.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Bill,

Very true. This is made worse by the fact that I can't stand smilies and am not keen on emoticons. Both seem too self-consciously ironic when I use them, though I cheerfully accept that others can use them easily.

But it does sometimes seem -- and once again I do not exclude myself -- that not-so-subtle feedback is sometimes missed or even sometimes deliberately ignored.

Perhaps the geek poll from a few weeks ago is relevant here. Some people are permanent geeks, but I think most of us can slip into geek mode if the right buttons are pressed.

Cheers,

R.
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I find emoticons to be a necessary evil, mainly as seriousness (well, lack thereof) and sarcasm indicators. It isn't just body language we are missing here, it is tone of voice. In the largely context-less environment that is the internet- informal conversations using a more formal form of communicaton, the written word- it is all too easy sometimes to mistake sarcasm or humor for seriousness, and this leads to too many internet conversations going horribly wrong. Unfortunately, the most elegant, but far from perfect (and rather idiotic looking) method I have found for conveying the informalities we are intending are emoticons, a couple of simple smilies in my case.
 
MCTuomey said:
I will endeavor to practice greater tact while posting, not because it could have a difference on photographic efforts, but because tact leads to more deliberate reflection, rather than emotional outbursts.

If I'm wrong, then at the very least greater tact will result in a more pleasant environment by my standards, of course. I prefer civility over its various alternatives.
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Well said!
 
Roger Hicks said:
...is something most of us need to work on sometimes, especially when someone says something really stupid. It's always tempting to point out how stupid they are, except that they may not be: there can be a big difference between being stupid, and saying something stupid.
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Agreed.

It's also tempting to say, "Gosh, I'm an awful lot cleverer than you because..." when in fact we may be conflating experience (I've tried this, you haven't) and native intelligence. Or, for that matter, we may be failing to distinguish between their goals and our own.
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Also true.

Of course it's also possible to be misunderstood. Not only may we express ourselves imperfectly: there are always those who read what they want to read, not what we've actually said.
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Truer words was never spoke.

It is vexing when there are people who sometimes produce good and helpful replies, and almost equally often are boorish and arrogant. Increasingly, I suspect that the 'ignore' control is my friend. Formerly I regarded 'ignore' as weakness on my part. Now, I'm not so sure, though there are still only two or three people on my 'ignore' list. How do others treat 'ignore'? (Of course, I'll not hear from those who have placed me on their 'ignore' lists).
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I have never placed anyone on 'ignore' on RFF. Came close to it once or twice, but in the end, I'd rather see something that infuriates me and disregard it than not see it.

When it comes to 'tact', I am not sure what it is I do online that is different from what I do in personal face-to-face communications that causes people online to find me 'tactless'. I do not get such a response in person; indeed, a good portion of my job depends upon my being able to communicate effectively with my clients and if I were in fact tactless, I believe it would have a deleterious effect.

I'd joked about not using enough emoticons, but that may not be so far from the truth. There is something missing in my online communications that includes the nod and the wink. For that, I apologize; the fault is clearly mine.

I can't help being hyper-intelligent and an audodidact. It's a curse, but I try to bear up under it. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D (see, that's me joking).
 
Merkin said:
I find emoticons to be a necessary evil...
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I'll toss in a smilie when I write in jest, not so much to avoid offense but to cover my failures as a humorist.

Writing -- what we do here -- is simply much more difficult than speaking. It is not merely transcribing our spoken words. Unless the purpose of writing is only to convey sterile information, we write to prompt some kind of response in readers. Sometimes we want to persuade, sometimes to refute, sometimes to tell jokes. Success at writing means success at manipulating words to produce a desired reaction in readers. Often, I suspect, perceived errors of tact are down to writing fumbles.
 
As Merkin pointed out, the nuances of interpersonal communication are sorely lacking among the electrons of cyberspace. I often think that our estimation of some people, who we may find irksome because of perceived lack of tact, would be completely different if we were chatting over a beer. Of course, there will always be exceptions!

All and all, I have to commend my fellow RFF members on the quality of this forum. This has always seemed like a tight knit bunch and I often think that it's a shame that we can't meet in person ... over a beer!

Matt
 
wgerrard, not everybody finds writing a difficult chore. Some of us feel that it can be a useful and precise means of communicating, and it can still have some humor thrown in. Many people freeze up when talking but don't have the problem while writing.
 
Al Kaplan said:
wgerrard, not everybody finds writing a difficult chore.
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I don't find it a difficult chore (at least when I don't have to crank out hundreds of pages at a time). However, I still use emoticons every now and then as safeguards, in order to overcome the inherent insecurity and limited expressiveness that stem from my use of a foreign language.
 
What do you call using a button rewind M2 that I bought second hand in 1972, and it still has the accessory rewind crank on it (which I can't stand) because the screw is rusted in place? Ostentatious or laziness?
 
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Al Kaplan said:
wgerrard, not everybody finds writing a difficult chore. Some of us feel that it can be a useful and precise means of communicating, and it can still have some humor thrown in. Many people freeze up when talking but don't have the problem while writing.
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Agreed, Al. I'm often more comfortable writing than speaking. I stand by my assertion, though, that it is more difficult to elicit and control reactions when writing than when speaking. That is why, I suppose, so few people earn livings as fiction writers. When we write, and then toss the words out among strangers (as, to all intents and purposes, we do here) we lose all control of what those words might do or might be taken to mean.
 
Since I have much more to learn about photography than I know, Roger, I am glad there are those like yourself around here. I do know a bit about other things, and sometimes it is amazing how little knowledge about the world others may have, although they are quite certain they know all required to post about things from a point of authority. Oh, well, such as life. I am determined to endeavor to be helpful but not authoritative, and to avoid other areas, most certainly like religion and politics. Regardless of my thoughts about leadership....maybe we should all focus on photography.
Thanks for raising an important issue.
 
A lot of the skill in writing is choosing words that will get across the intended meaning to the target readership. Here on the forum we have to consider that we have readers whose native language isn't English, that the British don't speak exactly the same language as North Americans, and I get the impression that Keith has to deal with both variants as slightly foreign in Oz.
 
I've met several in my "limited" travels and since Miami is both a destination and waypoint to other destinations I've met up with several who were from elsewhere. There are also a few who live nearby that I've met. They're always different in person.
 
Wonder no more...zero.
I just know how they seem, and that's your point.
However, Memphis and I have been threatening to meet up for quite a while, and I plan to have dinner with xray...do those count?
 
You wanna correspond with a few Aspergers guys if you can think that people around here are tactless ... and they really don't get it , and it does not bother me in the slightest . And I can ' ignore ' with impunity - 'cos we just pick up from last time .
This is so much easier for me than playing games I can't make sense of with NTs [ neurotypicals ] LOL
 
Well Dee, it's been suggested on occasion that I'm one of those Aspergers guys. I've even been tested for it, inconclusive of course, because the medical establishment can't agree on a good definition, or even whether or not it really exists. About the only obvious indication of it these days is my writing style. I don't think that I'm tactless though.
 
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