Next step (upgrade)

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wiedo

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I recently bought a Leica CL w/ Summicron-C M 40mm f2 and i love it. Just got my first roll back, the photo's turned out a little dark, but maybe i'm just not metering correctly.

So what do you guys think what will be the next best buy. Should i upgrade it with a better/other lens? Should i CLA it (although it isn't directly needed IMHO, but it's a ebay buy, so you'll never know) or should i save up for a 'real' Leica M? And why and which one?

This is the first Leica i ever used(/touched :)) and i don't know why a Leica M is better.

Also i like to shoot portraits and interieur, so i probably need a shorter and a longer lens, although i don't like changing lenses.

So what do you guys think and what did you do when you first bought a Leica CL (next to taking a lot of pictures with it of course)?
 
A Leica CL was my first M camera, too. Later on I bought an M4 and an M3. Guess which one remains my main camera? THe CL, because of its compact size, onboard metering, and wonderful 40mm lens. THe main reason to upgrade from a CL is the more robust construction, and the easier foclsing with long lenses, of the M3 and M4 - neither of which will really improve your photos.

I suggest you check your CL meter against a meter you know to be good. The CL meter, as long as it's workin (not all of them are) is one of the better in-camera meters around, I've actually found mine gives better results than on my Hexar AF, or my old Hexar RF.

GOod luck, I hope you sort out this problem and take lots of great photos with this little gem.

As for other lenses, the 90mm Elmar designed for the CL is great. I use the CV 28/3.5 - the snapshot 25/4, if you find the old version complete with viewfinder, is terrific on the CL, too, and makes a very compact outfit.
 
I agreed with Paul, you only need to upgrade if you need a more robust camera, and help out on the focusing. On your situation on the photo being dark, my guess is the battery volt of 1.5V vs 1.35v issue. The CL suppose to be using the old mercury 1.35v battery, and if used with the 1.5v battery there might be issue. (1) The 1.5V doesn't hold it voltage as good as the old Mercury cell, the 1.5v battery will have the voltage decrease as aged, so it might affect the meter reading. (2) Your CL might be calibrated to be use on the 1.5v battery but u might have a 1.35v in the camera.
So check what battery you are using first. And you can always have the camera calibrated to the type of battery being use. Have fun with it!
 
I would stick with the CL, perhaps send her over to Sherry (best in the world to my knowledge with CLs). For portraits I would recommend you look at a Nikon F and a 105/2.5 with a good incident light meter. Pick up a CV 25 M for her. I loved the combo of 25 and 40 lenses. While you can use a 90/4 with your CL I just find the 105 on an F as a much better combo. Plus you can get the the combo for about the same as a good 90/4.

B2 (;->
 
Thanks for the advice you guys! I'm glad i bought a good camera (needed a little conformation).

I'll look into your lens advices.. I think i'll go for wide-angle first. CV 28 looks good, and i think it will fit in my (tight) budget. I originally thought that (25)28mm and 40mm won't make a lot of difference, i was sniping for the CV 15mm. But now i'm thinking it's maybe too wide.

Buying another (cheaper) camera, just for portraits, is maybe a good idea. But i think it'll be a rangefinder and compact, i don't like focussing on a SLR (the main reason i switched to RF). I have 50mm (f1.4) on a crop factor dSLR, so i actually already have secondary camera for portraits.

As for the light meter/battery 'problem'. It can be that i just metered wrong or my printshop just printed too dark, i'll scan my negatives soon and i'll take a look at the results, just to be sure. Maybe the shutter speeds are wrong, i don't know yet.

I bought this battery adapter: de Gruijter PX625 battery adapter. When i push the battery check button i'll go halfway down the middle. So it's giving more voltage than the original PX625 (there was one in the camera when i bought it). I'm not sure yet, but maybe i'll have to use the battery check point as the correct light (so halfway down the middle), or just set the ASA somewhat lower (sorry for not using jargon).

I'll also go to a local Leica repairer for CLA and he'll check my meter and my shutter speeds as well. I hope he has some other Leica's around as well (probably), so i could see the real difference. I think the viewfinder of the Leica CL is a little small, i've glasses and sometimes i found it a little bit difficult to see trough it.

You guys gave me the confidence to invest more in this camera.
 
There are many focusing screens for the Nikon F/F2 that can help with focusing. You can get eye dopter to match your glasses if you need/want them. The 105/2.5 is perhaps the most classic portrait lens ever made.

As you like RFs so much I'd recommend you look at a Bessa T with a good bright line finder for the lens. There are lots of fine portrait glass out there for LTM or M. A lot depends on your budget and preference for speed/size. The old Leica Elmar 90/4 has a nice way of painting light. Steinheil Munchen 90/2.8 is a fine old lens, a bit bigger but not too much. 2.8 is about a wide as I would go, actually I would only shoot it at f4 because of the short effective base length of the CL. There is nothing wrong with the CL, like any camera you just need to understand it's limitations and find ways around them. If you go with a Bessa T you can use just about any 85-90 made, F2 is fine. I'd look for an old Nikkor 85/2 in chrome. Heavy but a razor with great bokeh.

B2 (;->
 
I would stick with the CL for a while. It does have framelines for 90mm, and the F4 Elmar is a good match for it. Nice portrait lens as well. If you add "full-size" M body later, the 90/4 will work with it. I have used a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit with my CL and not had problems.
 
BillBingham2 said:
As you like RFs so much I'd recommend you look at a Bessa T with a good bright line finder for the lens.
Click to expand...

Wow, i like this Bessa T for portraits.. i think separate rangefinder and viewfinder will be great for long lenses.. the framelines of the 90mm on a Leica CL will be very small i think.

My plan for now (probably will take somewhere around a year or two if i could hold myself not spending too much):
- CLA my Leica CL
- optionally buy a Zhou Half Case for protection (what do you guys think?)
- Get a wider lens (25/28mm or maybe the 15mm, it'll be a CV i think.)
- Keep the CL for 50mm and shorter.
- Buy a 85mm/90mm (i'll try to get a F2.8) lens and separate 85mm/90mm viewfinder
- Buy something like the Bessa T for portraits.

So what's a good price for a Bessa T?

I'll always go for the 'cheapest' solutions BTW, it's expensive already. But i like old mechanical and robust stuff, which will go with me all my life if i want, i hate 'consuming' products. Size doesn't really matter for me, i'm used to Yashica Electro's and dSLR.
 
I sold off both my CL ("Peter Meter" and "Clack-Clack")this past week, and now I am already missing it. I would suggest you keep your CL, maintain it with a CLA etc.

raytoei
 
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wiedo said:
Wow, i like this Bessa T for portraits.. i think separate rangefinder and viewfinder will be great for long lenses.. the framelines of the 90mm on a Leica CL will be very small i think.
Click to expand...
I think getting the Bessa T, in addition to the CL, is a distraction. The ELmar M is a great value lens, yes it's F/4, but remember Jane Bown takes all of her portraits at f/5.6. The advantages of the T in terms of focusing are, in my opinion at least, really offset by using a separate viewfinder - I find sewitching from RF to VF a real pain with a long lens. The 90mm frame on the CL is perfectly usable; many people have also used a 90/2.8 and found it seems fine.

Really, I would get to know this camera really well before you consider buying more kit.

It could be worth buying the Mr ZHou case though - the camera hangs a lot better with one. My CL has a ding at one end when it dropped, using the original case - the ZHou case offers a fair deal more protection, and of course the camera's always ready for use.
 
Paul, got a question for you on the 28mm lens fitted on the CL, do you use a external VF for the 28mm on the CL, or is the RF of the CL had enough spacing in it if you "kind of eyeball" around. thanks.
 
ed1234 said:
Paul, got a question for you on the 28mm lens fitted on the CL, do you use a external VF for the 28mm on the CL, or is the RF of the CL had enough spacing in it if you "kind of eyeball" around. thanks.
Click to expand...

Mmm, good question. I happen to have a 28/35 VF that I used on the M3, so I use that. I've not tried the entire VF option.

Unfortunately i can't check the two against each other at the moment, as the nipper dropped the VF and it needs repair.
 
Scanned the negatives.. the meter turned out fine, the prints where just dark:

20100425-img655.jpg

Inside test shot

20100425-img661.jpg

Outside test shot

20100425-img666.jpg

Wierd dark side, what's wrong here? looks like a shadow to me.
 
That last shot with the shadow, looks like shutter curtain capping to me. (It is a vertical shot, and the CL shutter runs vertically.) You were probably using a high shutter speed, which is when capping typically happens on curtains not running properly. It seems that you should spend your money on a CLA for the body, rather than buying any new lenses at this point. You could just avoid the 1/1000 shutter speed setting, but capping indicates the need for a CLA.
 
Paul, thanks for your feedback, my guess is that the RF should had enough room but unable to confirm it.

Wiedo, the meter on the CL is a spot meter which is aim at roughly the area of the focusing patch. So the reading does move around when you point it at different shade/ light. Currently I am with a 50/1.5, 35/2 and VC 15 lens. The VC is great lens, scale focus make the CL works like a point and shot. I am planning on a 28mm then SA21 but the SA21 lens don't fit on the CL...
 
FrankS said:
It seems that you should spend your money on a CLA for the body, rather than buying any new lenses at this point.
Click to expand...

Ok, i'll make a apointment with the Leica repairer this week, until then i only use slower shutter settings (I just started a new 36exp roll :bang:). You where right about the high shutter speed on that shot.. it was a sunny day and i almost always try to get the F number as low as possible.

These shots wheren't post-processed btw.
 
hi I just bought a CL as well - went after it for the small compactness that can fit a 20mm or above lens on it. I shoot mostly wide angle on film, so this is a great camera if I don't lug around my Mamiya 7. I bought a CV 15mm and its great combination. My built in meter is shooting 1 stop dark, so now I simply compensate for that from the needle reading. ( have a 1.5V battery and camera mostly likely not calibrated for it) might look into a 40mm for shoot candid, maybe the CV 40mm 1.4 SC...
 
Just won the CV 15mm w/ viewfinder and LTM to M adapter at ebay for a reasonable price, actually a little accidentally (got to love auctions). Also made an appointment with my leica repairer and it'll be fixed in May.

I'll probably also buy the Zhou Half Case and that will be it for a while i think.. portrait lenses (or camera's) can wait. I already spend more then i thought i would. It's true what they say: Cameradollars are different than normal dollars :).
 
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