M3 Serial Number

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tmmats

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Hi All,
I recently purchased an M3 with a 701XXX serial number; however, this M3 is a single stroke and has a preview lever. I know the early DS were regularly upgraded to SS but what about the preview lever? Could this have been a later addition as well?
Thanks.
 
Two general possibilities, the body could have come from a single stroke with preview lever which was replaced with an early 701xxx top plate or it could have been added by the factory or tech some time after it was produced.
 
Was there a specific point in time (serial number) when Leica decided to add the preview lever? As I look at more pictures of M3s, it seems like there are some early ones with the lever and later ones without. Did Leica sell two versions throughout the production life of the M3?
 
Could you post some pictures of the camera? There are a few tell tale signs of the cameras variation. The strap lugs, the film rewind lever. If you dig really deep and take off the top plate you could look for variations in the rangefinder mechanism.

The rear eyepiece of earlier M3's were smaller than later single stroke M3's. Sometimes owners engraved the cameras serial number somewhere inside the camera. The film advance lever could also tell, double stroke cameras have shorter levers than single strokes.
 
tmmats said:
Was there a specific point in time (serial number) when Leica decided to add the preview lever? As I look at more pictures of M3s, it seems like there are some early ones with the lever and later ones without. Did Leica sell two versions throughout the production life of the M3?
Click to expand...

Per Lager, the field frame selector was introduced with 785801. At 854001 the new shutter speeds, and single stroke with 919251.

The "Buddha Ear" strap lugs staid until appr. 963000. More tell tale signs of most 7xxxxx cameras should be four screws to hold the top plate, and no DOF markers in the viewfinder.

As Darren said, pictures would help. Also, what seal is at the 12 o'clock position, and if it's an "L" is it raised or sunken ?

Best,

Roland.
 
tmmats said:
Was there a specific point in time (serial number) when Leica decided to add the preview lever? As I look at more pictures of M3s, it seems like there are some early ones with the lever and later ones without. Did Leica sell two versions throughout the production life of the M3?
Click to expand...


try here
 
Put the camera upside down and take off the bottomplate. There's a black metal plate that shows how to trim the film leader there, held by four screws, maybe five in case of early M3's. Observe that two of the screws closest to the feed side of the film chamber not only hold that black plate, but also a small brass part that engages the lock from the bottom plate. Notice its orientation and remember it. Now, take out all the screws and make sure the brass part for the lock does not drop down into the camera. Use a screwdriver that's an exact fit and be careful not to wreck the screws or even the paint on them.

Your true serial number is on the bottom of the crate, in plain sight. If 701xxx you have a very early camera (and we'd like to see a picture of it no matter how, cannot ever see too many M3s :p)
 
Because of the screws on old top plates (until 782001) - in your first picture left under RF window, and right under frameline illumination window - I don't think old 701xxx top plates are inter-changable with SS cameras. Looks to me like an original 701xxx camera, upgraded to SS and with frameline selector probably by Leitz itself - the seal should tell if still there.
 
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Your picture shows the correct old shutter speeds for 701xxx.

BTW, the Summicron (1234xxx) is also from 1954. Congrats on a cool piece of history.
 
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tmmats said:
Sorry for the quick and dirty pictures.



Click to expand...

Screws, shutter speed dial and ear-shaped lugs all check out with an early M3, my guess is the owner had it upgraded to preview lever when he sent it in for the DS to SS conversion. Might have been a package deal.
Interested to hear if I was right in the future, don't take too long, burn that film! ;)

EDIT: somethings funny witht the retaining screw in the rewind know though, never seen that one. There's variations (red-paint slotted screw, two red dimples, one ex-centric red dimple) but this one is new. Any chance on a close-up from that one?
 
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I'm looking at pictures of similar rewind knobs in Lager's book, Johan (he has a picture of 700000). It's an excentric dimple without color. Maybe there was red in there at some point.
 
Thanks guys. It came back from a CLA recently, and it's working beautifully. VF is clean and clear. Bought it from a 2nd owner (got a killer deal!) who hasn't used it since 1989 - he told me the 1st owner upgraded to SS. (Wanted to verify this and other possible upgrades with you folks)

Re: the rewind knob - I see the red paint in the dimple. I think it's just a bit dirty.

 
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As I'm reading more here, there is more that fits: the rewind knob changed from a bar to a dot to two dots during the first production year. The back-door with the ASA dial going to 200 only is very early. The "half screw head" in the flash shoe front fits early cameras.

The original 701xxx should have a ceramic pressure plate. Check if yours was upgraded. Early cameras have no spacer under the wind arm. That was added for yours. Etc.
 
I won't be able to check the pressure plate until I'm done with this roll but seeing that this M3 went through the works in terms of upgrades, I would assume it was upgraded to what was 'current' at the time of upgrading (metal?).

I guess I should get this book by Lager - sounds like it might hold all the answers to my questions!
 
buzzardkid said:
Put the camera upside down and take off the bottomplate. There's a black metal plate that shows how to trim the film leader there,... serial number is on the bottom of the crate, in plain sight...
Click to expand...

All good ideas here. If the original chassis was 'upgraded' with the preview selector, then the original matching serial number should still be there. If, however (as I suspect), the chassis was simply replaced for the installation of the preview selector, then the number will either be different or not there at all.

By 1960 Leica had abandoned the practice of matching serial numbers on chassis and top covers.
 
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