kshapero
South Florida Man
good point indeed.
tj01
Well-known
I couldn't focus night shots on my 50/1.8. With the M6 .72, it's still difficult but not as bad. There's also no way you could handheld that vertical shutter as compared to the horizontal cloth shutter on those slower shutter speeds.
doolittle
Well-known
I have both (M6 and FM2n) and am very fond of each of them.
The M6 with a 50mm/2 fits into my coat pocket, FM2 with a 50mm/1.8 doesn't. FM2 shutter speed goes to 1/4000, M6 to 1/1000, which is sometimes useful. I don't worry about the safety of FM2, where as the M6 is camouflaged with black tape to hide it's identity. I would shoot the FM2 on a tripod, but haven't considered using a tripod with the M6 (okay, it's not really a difference!). FM2 has self timer, but never felt the need for one on M6. FM2 feels less robust than the M6, but I know which I would be more upset dropping!
The M6 with a 50mm/2 fits into my coat pocket, FM2 with a 50mm/1.8 doesn't. FM2 shutter speed goes to 1/4000, M6 to 1/1000, which is sometimes useful. I don't worry about the safety of FM2, where as the M6 is camouflaged with black tape to hide it's identity. I would shoot the FM2 on a tripod, but haven't considered using a tripod with the M6 (okay, it's not really a difference!). FM2 has self timer, but never felt the need for one on M6. FM2 feels less robust than the M6, but I know which I would be more upset dropping!
FrankS
Registered User
There is no difference; the FM may even be better because of macro and tele capabilties. Due to my generous nature, I will send an FM camera to anyone who sends me their M6.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Ok I admit it, I just love my M6.There is no difference; the FM may even be better because of macro and tele capabilties. Due to my generous nature, I will send an FM camera to anyone who sends me their M6.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
You even have to ask??!!?? HERESY!!!
Vilk
Established
F2 over M3 anytime
healyzh
Well-known
I have largely the same. I bought a used FM2 and Series E 50mm f/1.8 back in '86. I still use it. I bought a F3HP last year for almost nothing, I like the way it feels and the AE, but in many ways prefer the FM2. I recently added a M6 TTL with a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2, and am looking to get some more lenses for it when I can. I like doing B&W low-light photography. For that, the F3HP is totally unsuited in my opinion, I prefer the LED's of the FM2 and M6. Having said that, the M6 wins out easily due to it being a Rangefinder, and not having the mirror flap. Though having a 50mm f/1.4 I can put on the FM2 is nice, like I said, I need more glass for my Leica!
I don't camouflage either camera, and honestly I would probably be more upset if something happened to the FM2, than the M6. The FM2 and I have a lot of history together, and I saw a lot of the world with it.
_mark__
Well-known
Nikon still produce a 35 f/1.4, the 28mm f/2 and the 24 f/2 ais.
PKR
Veteran
as a working guy always found my Leica gear was in the repair shop much more than the Nikon gear. Usually a range finder correction. Never anything broken.
Einstein did not like photographers, who he called Lichtaffen (Light monkeys)
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Yeah, the M6 has a pentaprism, uses Nikon lenses, has mirror slap and doesn't have an inferiority complex.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Now, what is the difference between a Smartcar and a Harley Davidson? :angel:
:bang: :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:
Ronald M
Veteran
I have a FE2 that works. Thats all that I can say for it and can`t imagine a Fm would be much better. My F2 and recently aquired Nikkormat FT start to approach a decent camera. These are good sturdy pro cameras and do not leave you with the feeling they will fail.
All my M cameras, 2 thru 6, are a better experience. So is any Leicaflex, R6 thru R9.
We should find a hole somewhere for the R3, R4, R5, R4 and all the cheapo Nikons.
I only have any Nikon film cameras at all because I have Nikon digital 40,200 700, and D3 and I got tired of carrying two sets of lenses, one Nikon , one Leica. Damn shame Leica got so outragiously expensive and never did offer a digital R, only promises. I can get promises from the government too that never materialize.
All my M cameras, 2 thru 6, are a better experience. So is any Leicaflex, R6 thru R9.
We should find a hole somewhere for the R3, R4, R5, R4 and all the cheapo Nikons.
I only have any Nikon film cameras at all because I have Nikon digital 40,200 700, and D3 and I got tired of carrying two sets of lenses, one Nikon , one Leica. Damn shame Leica got so outragiously expensive and never did offer a digital R, only promises. I can get promises from the government too that never materialize.
menos
Veteran
a short sum up FM(3a) vs Leica M(6/7)
a short sum up FM(3a) vs Leica M(6/7)
I revisited my FM3a with super lightweight-superlightvalue 50 f1.8 AiS (60 EUR, mint) last week and shot a handful color neg film.
It handles subjectively lighter than a comparable M (weight wise).
It is not exactly bigger, but just differently shaped with the prism housing.
The 50 f1.9 is not really bigger than a 50 Cron (it is lighter due to some plastic and less dense glass but veery smooth and well made - doesn't feel "cheap" except the plastic aperture ring).
It's wind lever feels rougher than the M and can't be cocked double stroke (don't think, the "rough" is a big issue - you just can clearly feel and hear (!) the gears, when cocking).
I mostly cock my M6 and M7 with two short strokes, as I feel more comfortable, not to move the camera to much, while in my face.
It's film loading with the "fiddle leader into plastic slit" is much slower, than loading a late M with the tulip take up spool. Really, the M is loaded and ready in half the time, while I still fiddle with the FM (I guess, that comes down to practicing).
The rewind action on the FM3a is much lighter, smoother and faster as on my M6 and M7 (they require more strength, I slip from time to time and they feel more rough or even "broken" by comparison).
Metering the FM3a in low light is bad, as the viewfinder has no lighted indicators - there is nothing better than the M6 classic two arrow diode meter with glowing diodes, as the meter reading changes - hate the M7 meter. The FM2 should be fine with it's metering diodes.
Apart from comparing a SLR with a RF, the viewfinder of the FM3a is more dim, much smaller and a really good example of the "tunnel effect" (all in a bad way I am afraid).
The placement of the RF viewfinder on the left side of the camera back really is ideal for left and right eye shooters with both eyes open or one eye closed - I do all of this depending on mood, lens, light and subject.
Looking through the M is just easier and more comfortable.
Also, poking the wind lever in the eye is less bad on the M than on the SLR.
The all around fit, finish and feel of the M vs FM stands no comparison and is directly connected to their respective price.
The SLR feels indeed cheaper, but does the job veeery reliably. The materials of the FM3a's body are top notch as with the Leica - only brass, aluminum, nice leatherette. The ISO selector film window (yes a film window - love it!) and wind lever tip are plastic.
The ISO selector feels cheap, but is not worse in function as the Leica ISO selector on the back door (especially the M7 one).
The FM3a has both ISO speed AND EV comp interlocked in comparison to the M7.
The FM3a focusses up close even with the rather limiting 0.6m or the cheapo 50 f1.8.
The MD12 is absolutely gorgeous (if being loud is not an issue) - it is fast, precise, has a great grip, motor rewind and is good for many rolls on 8 standard AAs.
Shooting the FM3a on "A" with the MD12 is really quick.
If you're into flash - the FM3a has TTL (as does the M6TTL and M7) but is fully compatible to the much more affordable Nikon TTL flashes (Nikons top of the line SB-900 form today is almost half the price of the Leica/Metz counterpart).
The FM3a has a −1ev fill flash button, once pressed, giving an −1ev TTL flash underexposure, to just fill - nice touch!
The FM3a AElock button is a bit hard to use for left eye shooters (you've got the wind lever and your thumb on the AElock button in your right eye).
The Leica AElock on the M7 is easier to use, but worse, when shooting with several frames locked and motor (simply doesn't work with the M7 ;-) but with the FM3a).
I started, to have tiny FM3a with the superlight 50 f1.8 now in the bag together with my most used M8.2 and either a M7 for low light and tele or a M6 for a 15 or 28mm.
Thats a 3 camera - 3 lenses - 3 different film bag with reasonable weight and small footprint.
Every RF shooter ought to have a FM/ FM2/ FM2n/ FM3a with a wide/normal/tele/macro these days, as they are so affordable compared to anything from Leica.
It is a very nice camera indeed - RF shruffs should try one before complaining of sacrilegious naming of these items over here ;-)
a short sum up FM(3a) vs Leica M(6/7)
I revisited my FM3a with super lightweight-superlightvalue 50 f1.8 AiS (60 EUR, mint) last week and shot a handful color neg film.
It handles subjectively lighter than a comparable M (weight wise).
It is not exactly bigger, but just differently shaped with the prism housing.
The 50 f1.9 is not really bigger than a 50 Cron (it is lighter due to some plastic and less dense glass but veery smooth and well made - doesn't feel "cheap" except the plastic aperture ring).
It's wind lever feels rougher than the M and can't be cocked double stroke (don't think, the "rough" is a big issue - you just can clearly feel and hear (!) the gears, when cocking).
I mostly cock my M6 and M7 with two short strokes, as I feel more comfortable, not to move the camera to much, while in my face.
It's film loading with the "fiddle leader into plastic slit" is much slower, than loading a late M with the tulip take up spool. Really, the M is loaded and ready in half the time, while I still fiddle with the FM (I guess, that comes down to practicing).
The rewind action on the FM3a is much lighter, smoother and faster as on my M6 and M7 (they require more strength, I slip from time to time and they feel more rough or even "broken" by comparison).
Metering the FM3a in low light is bad, as the viewfinder has no lighted indicators - there is nothing better than the M6 classic two arrow diode meter with glowing diodes, as the meter reading changes - hate the M7 meter. The FM2 should be fine with it's metering diodes.
Apart from comparing a SLR with a RF, the viewfinder of the FM3a is more dim, much smaller and a really good example of the "tunnel effect" (all in a bad way I am afraid).
The placement of the RF viewfinder on the left side of the camera back really is ideal for left and right eye shooters with both eyes open or one eye closed - I do all of this depending on mood, lens, light and subject.
Looking through the M is just easier and more comfortable.
Also, poking the wind lever in the eye is less bad on the M than on the SLR.
The all around fit, finish and feel of the M vs FM stands no comparison and is directly connected to their respective price.
The SLR feels indeed cheaper, but does the job veeery reliably. The materials of the FM3a's body are top notch as with the Leica - only brass, aluminum, nice leatherette. The ISO selector film window (yes a film window - love it!) and wind lever tip are plastic.
The ISO selector feels cheap, but is not worse in function as the Leica ISO selector on the back door (especially the M7 one).
The FM3a has both ISO speed AND EV comp interlocked in comparison to the M7.
The FM3a focusses up close even with the rather limiting 0.6m or the cheapo 50 f1.8.
The MD12 is absolutely gorgeous (if being loud is not an issue) - it is fast, precise, has a great grip, motor rewind and is good for many rolls on 8 standard AAs.
Shooting the FM3a on "A" with the MD12 is really quick.
If you're into flash - the FM3a has TTL (as does the M6TTL and M7) but is fully compatible to the much more affordable Nikon TTL flashes (Nikons top of the line SB-900 form today is almost half the price of the Leica/Metz counterpart).
The FM3a has a −1ev fill flash button, once pressed, giving an −1ev TTL flash underexposure, to just fill - nice touch!
The FM3a AElock button is a bit hard to use for left eye shooters (you've got the wind lever and your thumb on the AElock button in your right eye).
The Leica AElock on the M7 is easier to use, but worse, when shooting with several frames locked and motor (simply doesn't work with the M7 ;-) but with the FM3a).
I started, to have tiny FM3a with the superlight 50 f1.8 now in the bag together with my most used M8.2 and either a M7 for low light and tele or a M6 for a 15 or 28mm.
Thats a 3 camera - 3 lenses - 3 different film bag with reasonable weight and small footprint.
Every RF shooter ought to have a FM/ FM2/ FM2n/ FM3a with a wide/normal/tele/macro these days, as they are so affordable compared to anything from Leica.
It is a very nice camera indeed - RF shruffs should try one before complaining of sacrilegious naming of these items over here ;-)
Pablito
coco frío
Seems to me you left a lot out. Can you elaborate a bit more?
V
Vic
Guest
menos left out a key difference:
With the FM3a, you can shoot all the speeds WITHOUT having a battery. With the M7, you need a battery in order to shoot all the speeds (without a battery, you're limited to 1/60 and 1/125).
This key feature is what would have made the M7 a killer camera. In this regard, it's equivalent to an FE instead of to an FM3a.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
If you've gotta run, I have a couple of worked-to-death FE2s that you could take with you. My 12 year old M6 has never had a CLA, though -- so it must not work at all.
menos
Veteran
This is very true, but not indeed an important feature to ME, as I have 4 new cells for the M7 always sitting in my bag.
I only compared the FM3a / M6/ M7, as these are the 3 cameras, I actually use - the M7 the most of them, while I do now most with the M8.2.
Many of the "works without batteries people" indeed must reside in very remote areas most of the year compared to the coffee shop next corner
Even without carrying a spare, I'd get one anywhere, I am on my feet.
The good thing about them is, they fit my M6, my M7 and even my 20 year old HP 32SII RPN calculator, I use at work (it runs about 5 years on a charge of 3 cells though) ;-)
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Seeing the real DOF with a wide open fast lens can be useful. And a visual pleasure...
I forgive RF's because they're small...
Cheers,
Juan
I forgive RF's because they're small...
Cheers,
Juan