Fuji X100 Digital SOMETHING from Fujifilm

[j j]

It's still baffling that none of the manufacturers didn't do something like this years ago? It's not like thousands of avid photographers weren't talking about their desire for such a camera online, right in plain sight.

Instead you get that Nikon copy of a Canon G9 or whatever that was... or another DSLR w high quality video (but unsuitable focusing, viewing, sound, etc.)

How deaf can they be that they wouldn't produce a professional digital video camera that used the DSLR sensors and lenses? Instead people are taking their still cameras and grafting viewfinders and other video refinements onto them in a home-brew, Duct taped fashion. And they been doing it like that for over two years now!

Look at the Panasonic G1... Camera of the Year and all that.... yet they actually made the follow-up models worse!

I don't think they were deaf, but just couldn't hear for all the noise: there are more people who would buy a camera than there are photographers and our voice was drowned out. And previous attempts at a more refined approach (Contax, Digilux2, DP-1 & 2) failed to make a major impact with what is a very fussy group, so the success of micro4/3 surprised a few manufacturers.

Hopefully, more makers will realise that good sales for an unusual camera can approach, equal or even exceed those for yet another like-me compact or SLR. I would love to go into a shop and choose between digital equivalents to a Contax T3 and G2, Hexar, C/V RMs etc like we could with film cameras a few years ago. Similar niches must still exist and a maturing technology that enables a longer-lasting product may yet deliver the cameras for a more mature selection.

 

[PKR]

Taking a real, close look at this very nice Fuji makes me wonder: whatever became of Konica's top-notch tech people...?

If this outfit got hold of any of them, I'd advise y'all to buckle up, because this might indicate the beginning of a wild and wonderful ride.

Companies may come and go, but good ideas sometimes still rise to the surface. (In this case, sometimes more than once.)


- Barrett

It was Konica/Minolta at the end correct? And yes, it was a great design team. I still use a Minolta meter

 

[Ezzie]

Ninehundred

 

[sevo]

I don't think they were deaf, but just couldn't hear for all the noise: there are more people who would buy a camera than there are photographers and our voice was drowned out.

Why would they? We are not their market. It is questionable whether there are more than the two each Nikon and Canon DSLRs in the sub medium format market whose development and marketing are targeted at professionals.

 

[PKR]

Marketing managers are very risk adverse, just like most people.

They know that if they bring out an unusual product that fails they'll be fired. If they bring out a product just like the other successful products on the market they'll have something that people will buy, and often only a few minor improvements and a lot of advertising are needed to make the product a "success" and get the marketing manager a raise. This is a safe, low risk approach; stick to what someone else showed works and you'll be OK.

It's rare to find someone willing to stick his neck out and risk failure on a new product. One of the challenges of management is figuring out how to let people fail (but not too often!). Apple is a good example of a company that has figured this out (it helps that the CEO is heavily involved since he's not going to fire himself).

Fuji has been willing to do things differently in the past and not follow Canikon's endless me-too-ism. Even if this does turn to be flawed hopefully it will force some new thinking into the industry.

Also, it can be argued that Fujifilm is bigger than the other players in this business. Yes Nikon is a "Mitsubishi" company.. but still not as big as the whole of Fuji. If anyone can afford the risk, it's Fuji. And Fuji has a great track record of quality products. Fuji's large format lenses are some of the best ever. Their split sensor design, though not successful outside the pro market, was highly innovative. I think this is the beginning of a product line.. maybe a competitive one.

 

[Ezzie]

Remember that Fuji own Nikon

 

[PKR]

Remember that Fuji own Nikon

Nikon is owned by Mitsubishi. They, until several months ago had office space in the Fujifilm building. They moved to a new location. They are on friendly terms, but there is no "ownership" to my knowledge.

quote from wiki:
Founded in 25 July 1917[1] as Nippon Kōgaku Kōgyō Kabushikigaisha (日本光学工業株式会社 "Japan Optical Industries Corporation"), the company was renamed Nikon Corporation, after its cameras, in 1988. Nikon is one of the companies of the Mitsubishi Group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon

 

[ChrisN]

Since this is a camera that is valiantly attempting to bring the viewfinder back into the photographic mainstream, I have a quick aside: does anyone here actually like composing at arm's length using a screen? I mean, is there anybody here who prefers it to a viewfinder?

Yes - as long as the screen is at least 4x5 (inches) in size, the image is inverted, and the camera is mounted on a solid tripod!

 

[ChrisN]

Did it also compensate for Field-of-View at close distance? The Konica framelines moved to compensate for parallax, and changed size to compensate for distance. This is the "infamous" M8 frameline issue, the framelines are set for close-distance and do not show the entire frame as captured at distance. The 90mm framelines on my M8 are perfect for my Nikkor 105. So "I'm Okay" with it.

The Konica style framelines would have solved the problem.

Hi Brian - I think we're talking about the GA645 here? Just checked mine, and yes, the framelines do change size when focused at different distances. I really like the GA645 - not an everyday camera but a great one to grab when I want something easy to shoot with (or let another person shoot with) that will still return outstanding image quality. I'm hoping for the same characteristics in the X-100.

 

[PKR]

Hi Brian - I think we're talking about the GA645 here? Just checked mine, and yes, the framelines do change size when focused at different distances. I really like the GA645 - not an everyday camera but a great one to grab when I want something easy to shoot with (or let another person shoot with) that will still return outstanding image quality. I'm hoping for the same characteristics in the X-100.

Hi Brian and Chris; Yes, that sounds correct. It's been some years since I had the cameras. As I recall there were 60mm, 45mm and zoom lens models. There may have been one more in the series. They were great cameras.

 

[Spyro]

... It's an amateur camera...

Cheers,

Juan

Aaahh good, good, thats a good thing. Amateurs take good photos.

amateur "lover of", from Latin amatorem "lover"
amateurism elevates things done with self-interest or for their own intrinsic value above those done for pay.

I've seen professionals who are amateurs, they take good photos too.

 

[jsrockit]

You mean the diehards falling for what isn't even an RF (but looks like one)? :angel:

It will most likely have some sort of electronic rangefinder like the contax G I would think... and to SLR haters, that is enough.

 

[Al Patterson]

It's the Internet Disease: "What's good for me is good for thee."

Well, it's not, and you (the DP Review commentors, not you, Al) are imbeciles.

I tend to suffer a bit from that disease myself, but it is amazing just how idiotic some of those folks in their forums can be.

 

[jsrockit]

The Hexar AF - which was very much a boutique product rather than mass market - was launched into a crowded field; there were plenty of autofocus cameras with optical finders; the Hexar was arguably the first to combine this with a truly high quality, fast lens and fast autofocus (and silent mode), but it was up against products from Contax, Nikon, Olympus, and others.

The intriguing aspect of the X100 is that Fuji are launching into what is not a crowded market. There's no one else there. It might be a niche product, but they will have all of that niche, and going by the example of EVIL cameras, no-one else will launch into that niche for a year or so.

What crowded market was there for the Hexar AF? To me, it was closer to the Leica M than the boutique P&S cameras. That leaves the Contax G1 and the M6 at the time. The market seems more crowded now... with the u 4/3 cameras, the APS-C mirrorless cameras, and the M9.

 

[Paul T.]

What crowded market was there for the Hexar AF? To me, it was closer to the Leica M than the boutique P&S cameras. That leaves the Contax G1 and the M6 at the time. The market seems more crowded now... with the u 4/3 cameras, the APS-C mirrorless cameras, and the M9.

In spirit it was like the M - but it was a (reasonably) compact, autofocus camera with optical viewfinder, up against (many) Contax cameras, not just the G1, the Olympus Mjus, Nikon 35ti, various Yashicas, plus I don't doubt many others.

What large sensor compacts are there with an optical VF? Not many. I have a GF1, but the Fuji seems less of a compromise. Seems, because it has to work in practice.

Like the Hexar, this will be a boutique camera, but I would bet it will establish a bigger niche than the Samsung, RIcoh and Sigma boutique cameras, and I think it will sell more copies than did the Hexar, which I recall cost around £600 UK, more in real terms than the X100, when it launched. (Edit: That's if it works in practice, of course.)

 

[jsrockit]

In spirit it was like the M - but it was a (reasonably) compact, autofocus camera with optical viewfinder, up against (many) Contax cameras, not just the G1, the Olympus Mjus, Nikon 35ti, various Yashicas, plus I don't doubt many others. .

Man, I just can't see comparing the Hexar AF with the Mionilux, T2, 35Ti, etc... those were clearly P&S cameras and I always felt the Hexar was a step up from those manual usage wise. I've owned all of them, so this isn't just off of specs.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Didn't the Hexar AF have a shutter with two leafs, and 1/250th second shutter top speed? Or did that change with from the original release? Seemed a mismatch considering the fast lens on it. The Nikon 35ti and 28ti also used two-leaf shutters, but with 1/500s top shutter speed.

This new Fuji has a 1/4000th top speed, certainly a match for anything out there.

 

[user237428934]

Didn't the Hexar AF have a shutter with two leafs, and 1/250th second shutter top speed?

1/250 for all models. This is an issue that's not so easy to deal with, espcially if you want to use the lens wide open in daylight. Because the Hexar has no ttl metering you have to compensate it manually if you put an ND-filter in front of the lens. The Hexar is quite challenging.

 

[furcafe]

Agreed. Also, w/all due respect to those of us on enthusiast sites like the RFF, the reality is that a few thousand avid photographers doesn't necessarily translate to a significant market for the major camera makers like Nikon & Canon (putting aside their potential concern for cannibalizing existing dSLR market), let alone the consumer electronics companies that just sell cameras on the side like Panasonic, etc. The bulk of their camera sales are point & shoots, w/products for "advanced" photographers like dSLRs & the various EVF system cameras being mostly for prestige. IIRC, photographic products aren't even the biggest source of money for Canon; they probably make more money selling office machines, printers, & industrial optics. Most people in the world are pretty happy w/the cameras in their cellphones.

Marketing managers are very risk adverse, just like most people.

They know that if they bring out an unusual product that fails they'll be fired. If they bring out a product just like the other successful products on the market they'll have something that people will buy, and often only a few minor improvements and a lot of advertising are needed to make the product a "success" and get the marketing manager a raise. This is a safe, low risk approach; stick to what someone else showed works and you'll be OK.

It's rare to find someone willing to stick his neck out and risk failure on a new product. One of the challenges of management is figuring out how to let people fail (but not too often!). Apple is a good example of a company that has figured this out (it helps that the CEO is heavily involved since he's not going to fire himself).

Fuji has been willing to do things differently in the past and not follow Canikon's endless me-too-ism. Even if this does turn to be flawed hopefully it will force some new thinking into the industry.

 

[dazedgonebye]

I've been trying not to talk myself in to this camera overnight...but the longer it bounces around in my head, the more I like it.
Only issue is, I'd likely have to sell off some 35mm rf gear to get it. That's a tough pill to swallow. Much as it may seem to be a Digital Hexar AF, I'm not willing to sell my actual Hexar to get it.