ChrisLivsey
Veteran
A number of UK dealers are now listing the M9 as "in stock".
Collectors and users
- Thread starter Roger Hicks
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A number of UK dealers are now listing the M9 as "in stock".
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Yep. One year later.
David Murphy
Veteran
You gents haven't seen insanely expensive Rollei's yet. The company that was making them (Franke & Heidecke GmbH, Feinmechanik und Optik) went bankrupt last year and new ones are not available. The prices of used ones are skyrocketing now.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Funny, but I've been toying with buying a Hasselblad '20 Years in Space' 500 EL/M camera - not because it's collectible, but because I like EL/M's, and this edition looks really neat (in gray!). No box, no papers, but I don't really care -- is it terrible to think that way????
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Apparently so. You're not worrying about what others will think of you, so something is definitely wrong.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear David,
Sorry, you're wrong on two counts (Insert smilies, etc., to soften the harshness of that statement). Yes I have seen insanely expensive Rolleis -- and new ones at that, at photokina.
Franke and Heidecke was wound up and reconstituted (because that's the only easy way to shed staff in Germany) as DHW, who had a stand at the show. Quite a big stand. They are making the SLR, the full range of TLRs, and Rollei 35s, all in Germany. The Rollei 35s are 4300€ each, call it $5800. The TLRs are, predictably, even more expensive. The site is www.dhw-fototechnik.de, aber Die Seite befindet sich im Aufbau if you go to it (Under Construction).
Cheers,
R.
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FrozenInTime
Well-known
A few years back I bought a 0-Series replica collectable with the intent to use it as a travel camera.
It had a great lens and was super compact - like nothing else around at the time.
I did use it and continue to do so when the mood takes me.
I'm proud to have significantly reduced the value of this camera to the point where I will never be tempted to part with it.
However I guess what also differentiated the 0-Series was that it was cheap for a Leica special edition - even cheap compared to the X-1.
Most specials are just too expensive to be desirable in any way.
It had a great lens and was super compact - like nothing else around at the time.
I did use it and continue to do so when the mood takes me.
I'm proud to have significantly reduced the value of this camera to the point where I will never be tempted to part with it.
However I guess what also differentiated the 0-Series was that it was cheap for a Leica special edition - even cheap compared to the X-1.
Most specials are just too expensive to be desirable in any way.
damien.murphy
Damien
Also, given the prices those used ones originally sold for, that they are not 'sky-rocketing' as opposed to returning to their natural price level 🙂
damien.murphy
Damien
I think its a very real issue for companies like Rollei and Leica, who have produced such well-built cameras in the past, that their current production is now competing with the old, and also that with their reputation developed on overbuilt cameras, the bar of judgement in their market is pretty high. I bought a Rollei 35T recently in perfect condition for €100, and am probably the worst possible prospect to buy a new Rollei 35 for €4300 from Rollei.
When twinned with the reality that the film market is a vastly reduced one, and probably served by existing cameras in the used marketplace, one wonders what the path for Rollei and Leica as camera companies is.
Is the reality, that we simply wish for the likes of Rollei and Leica to endure, so we may look fondly on them, as if they were in a glass exhibit case ?
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
I'm still waiting for Leica's digital version of the IIIG so I can wear the chrome down to bare brass LOL!!!!! 🙂
Tom
Tom
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Damien,
Both Rollei and Leica make digital cameras and are doing rather well with them. The film bodies can remain in production as a sideline for as long as anyone wants them.
Cheers,
R.
Both Rollei and Leica make digital cameras and are doing rather well with them. The film bodies can remain in production as a sideline for as long as anyone wants them.
Cheers,
R.
damien.murphy
Damien
The only thing that would make me buy a digital Leica would be upgradeable electronics, and like you Tom, knowing that the body shell would last as long as any of my film M's which are older than me!
damien.murphy
Damien
True, but Rollei in my eyes is just a me-too digital player, and I know quite well what happens to companies without a distinct selling point when the waters get choppy.
As for Leica, pre-M9, I think Leica was in trouble. The M9 seems to have been the magic digital formula for them, but with more companies entering the RF-space in the future, I suspect Leica could be in danger of getting lost in the crowd. At the moment, they're effectively the first to market - not an advantage that will last forever.
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damien.murphy
Damien
Actually (and elaborating on my above point), I would like to see Leica offer upgradeable electronics, whereby upon plonking down your $7k for an M9, you could upgrade the shell to M10 electronics for say $3k- $4k when the next model comes along. I think were Leica to go down this route, it might be the best fit to continue the Leica legacy, and also a way of tempting existing film M shooters into the fold. At present, I see a two-tier market; that of exclusive film M shooters, and digital M shooters (many of whom were/ are film M shooters too)
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LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Taking the M to digital was a great idea and it (SAVED) Leica from going bust.......I think that the M Film camera should be sold alongside with the M Digital, just Leica should really look at what the Japanese did with the Retro Nikon's and sit down and make a IIIG Digital or a New M3 film camera and not just make 125 in black paint and 125 in chrome, but make a nice run of them, (a few thousand) enough to get another new generation of people into shooting film, not just always thinking digital.....
Now I love my M8 and Leica is being so nice and replacing the sensor and other parts within my warranty, (I'm hoping to add on another year to the warranty and get my monies worth out of it and the work for sure)
I think the "instant" fun of digital photography is great.......but it still won't ever replace that feeling of a M3 winder in my hand, or working a collapsible Elmar out of a IIIC K body and peering through a OKARO filter before you snap the picture! 😀
Collector/Historian/Photographer ~ I feel I'm all three, it's fun doing it all and thankfully I don't have a open money pit/or GAS/sickness, I really have found almost everything I've ever wanted or feel I could afford at the time and or have made trades for it......what's left on the want list, isn't so bad afterall and it's STILL practical gear that will all be USED dispite it's rarity factor.
It's not fun staring at gear in a china cabinet, I did that the FIRST time around in the 1980's, (I was a serious MINT ONLY 1950's Leica Screw Mount collector) but since I traded/sold away all of that, got a M6 and then started my Photography business in the 1990's, it's been alot more exciting shooting collectible/and modern Leica cameras and really seeing what all the rare lenses can do, that's the fun I get out of collecting stuff 🙂
Tom
Now I love my M8 and Leica is being so nice and replacing the sensor and other parts within my warranty, (I'm hoping to add on another year to the warranty and get my monies worth out of it and the work for sure)
I think the "instant" fun of digital photography is great.......but it still won't ever replace that feeling of a M3 winder in my hand, or working a collapsible Elmar out of a IIIC K body and peering through a OKARO filter before you snap the picture! 😀
Collector/Historian/Photographer ~ I feel I'm all three, it's fun doing it all and thankfully I don't have a open money pit/or GAS/sickness, I really have found almost everything I've ever wanted or feel I could afford at the time and or have made trades for it......what's left on the want list, isn't so bad afterall and it's STILL practical gear that will all be USED dispite it's rarity factor.
It's not fun staring at gear in a china cabinet, I did that the FIRST time around in the 1980's, (I was a serious MINT ONLY 1950's Leica Screw Mount collector) but since I traded/sold away all of that, got a M6 and then started my Photography business in the 1990's, it's been alot more exciting shooting collectible/and modern Leica cameras and really seeing what all the rare lenses can do, that's the fun I get out of collecting stuff 🙂
Tom
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Damien,
What do you mean by 'the RF-space'? For example, I don't see the X100 as being in 'RF-space' but some do.
Cheers,
R.
MCTuomey
Veteran
At the time of the introduction of the M8, didn't Leica indicate its commitment to the concept of upgrading the camera's electronics, sensor, and firmware? If I recall correctly, the commitment was referred to as obsolescence prevention, or something close to that phrase.
damien.murphy
Damien
Hi Roger,
By RF-space, I mean any camera that positions itself as a digital RF/ RF-replacement option to RF shooters. Personally, regardless of whether it has an optical rangefinder, the X100 is very much in this space for me, and would replicate the fashion in which I shoot with my M4, ie a wide angle, scale-focussed shooter,
Damien
damien.murphy
Damien
Yes, but the implementation was terrible, if it has not been dropped altogether by Leica now. For it to work, upgrading needs to be a financially viable option for users, ie the cost to upgrade is less than the cost of buying the new model outright. For me, that upgrade price point is about 40% of the cost of the new model, but could probably live with 50%.
Sonnar Brian
Established
At 50% upgrade cost, it is about as cost-effective to sell the old camera and buy a new one. Noise isolation, heat dissipation, component size makes it difficult to design a housing that will be optimal for current and future technology. It either ties the hands of the engineer designing the next-generation of electronics, or forces "what-if Over-Engineering" into the current packaging. The latter usually means bigger and heavier bodies. If someone took apart an M9 and M8, laid the body and electronics out side-by-side, it would be interesting to see what small changes were required for the new generation of components.
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