filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
Refund him minus the costs of missing materials and damages.
returned camera....Now what?
- Thread starter uffda_x
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Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Did he shed any light as to how it ended up in that state? Re-covering with something like Cameraleather is not cheap and a months loan on the camera?😀
jljohn
Well-known
Cameraleather charges about $15 for a basic cover and $75 for the recovering itself plus shipping both ways.
If it seems to you that he opened the camera, I would not issue a refund until it has been inspected by a good technician. You don't know what he did in there. Might want to ask him about that too.
_larky
Well-known
I agree with the above posts, it is possible the camera was opened or that it was at least attempted. Send it in for a repair and check up, refund minus the costs of that repair, new Vulcanite, and anything missing.
huntjump
Well-known
He made you wait a month, plus damaged your camera. He should now sit patient as you fully assess all the damage with a professional. As someone else said, cost to restore it + cost of any missing/damaged paperwork. I might even go so far as charging him the $35 shipping since the camera works (you only took it because he claimed it wasnt working). I would also consider your time as something to factor in too.
Once you buy used, unless you receive it not working, damaged or some other issue spotted right away, its "as is" after a reasonable time frame. You are right, none of us are big box and buyers should expect that at these prices, there is some risk on the buyers end and certainly on the sellers end. If you want a solid return policy, pay new prices.
Once you buy used, unless you receive it not working, damaged or some other issue spotted right away, its "as is" after a reasonable time frame. You are right, none of us are big box and buyers should expect that at these prices, there is some risk on the buyers end and certainly on the sellers end. If you want a solid return policy, pay new prices.
uffda_x
Member
Here is the back story, When he received the camera....he had it for a few days and said the shutter didn't work. So I informed him to send it back and I would refund him the money....didn't hear back....(in the mean time)....He decided to send it off to Kinderman for a CLA quote. They told him the price of the CLA and shutter curtain replacement....so he decided he didn't want it anymore....month later I get an email saying he would take me up on my "offer" to return the camera. I initially hesitated because my offer was for him to return it before sending it off for a CLA quote. Yet I thought...maybe he misunderstood my offer from the start...and I'll just do it to save any drama. Now he is claiming that the vulcanite on the bottom was "missing" when I sent it to him.....and that he was a little annoyed by that....hmm...funny how that was NEVER mentioned before. If a piece breaks off during shipping...fine, I understand this stuff is brittle and thats plausible, but to never mention it to me this whole time until I brought up the issue? He is also claiming that Kindermann broke off the other chunk when they did their inspection.....(again...thanks for the reminder before sending back!) And now I receive an email saying...... "I can only assume that when you send a camera to get an estimate, they take it apart to see why the shutter does not work. I guess he put it back together properly, I don't know but I did notice when I got it back that it did once again work, I thought you would be happy that the camera functions?.... I apologize for my repair guy fixing the shutter?"
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uffda_x
Member
The member in question is reading these post.....he could chime in to help clear up some of this mess.
bob338
Well-known
If the camera was working when you sent it to him I would refund him whatever is left after having it CLA'd and recovered.
Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Yes this guy sounds to have been far from honest with you throughout the whole of this episode. A repair man is not going to "repair" the shutter during an inspection and not charge anything for doing it. This guy is insulting your intelligence with all this nonsense. But you are in the strong postition now of having the camera and the money. I would settle this completely to your own advantage and that may also encourage this guy to think twice before trying something similar with another unsuspecting seller.
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uffda_x
Member
Just sent an email to kinderman to figure out how they determine a CLA quote....I could never see them opening up a camera without consent just for liability reasons. And I can't see them breaking off a piece of vulcanite and just telling the customer....sorry...before they send it back.
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Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Will be interesting to see if Kidderman has any record of having received this camera for an estimate 😉
Do you have a link to your original ad for the camera?
Do you have a link to your original ad for the camera?
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Nigel Meaby
Well-known
Actually don't worry about a link to the ad. It was quite straight forward to discover who the buyer was 😀
ZeissFan
Veteran
I've had bad luck shipping to Canada. Twice, things have been damaged in transit.
I don't know if they're kicking or tossing the boxes or what. But one lens suffered very noticeable damage to the barrel.
I've decided now that anything going to Canada gets double-boxed -- for my protection.
I don't that that's the case here. And it doesn't account for the missing paperwork.
I don't know if they're kicking or tossing the boxes or what. But one lens suffered very noticeable damage to the barrel.
I've decided now that anything going to Canada gets double-boxed -- for my protection.
I don't that that's the case here. And it doesn't account for the missing paperwork.
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ZeissFan
Veteran
Yes, that's not the case here. And I think the buyer was disingenuous.
newsgrunt
Well-known
Guess it all hinges on what Kindermann says. Either way, I hope this hasn't soured you on Canadian buyers, we love shopping on RFF, esp now that our dollar is FINALLY stronger and goes much further 😉
uffda_x
Member
Actually, when I shipped the package to him...I double boxed it and used foam peanuts....so pretty unlikely the camera would be damaged during transit to him. Its a mess....what to do...what to do.
jto555
Member
Just one think, if you buy a camera from Leica and open it up, Leica will not honor the guarantee. So why should you?
However, I really think you should get legal advice on this.
However, I really think you should get legal advice on this.
peterm1
Veteran
Dont over analyse it................. You have been more than fair.
The camera came back in poor condition and that is his responsibility no matter how it occured assuming you boxed and packed it properly. The fact that some items which were part of the sale only aggrevates his culpability as does the fac that he claimed the shutter was not functional and this was incorrect. If he expects a perfect user camera then the least he can do is return it to you in the condition he received it - complete with the other bits.
Offer him the choice. He takes the camera back and you keep the money paid by him. Or you keep the camera and give him a partial refund. Base the latter on your cost of restitution. Thats all you have to do.
Ideas for next time (if there is a next time). Insure and track the package so there can be no doubt about that aspect. If you agree to a refund, put a time limit on itthe offer and make it subject to the camera being returned in the condition it left you or else your costs will be deducted from the refund. Put this in writing. The truth is people look after themselves and even the most well meaning interpret things in ways that benefit themself. Often people are not even reflective enough to even understand that theyare doing this. (I have seen it many many times in my life and guess it is human nature.)
The camera came back in poor condition and that is his responsibility no matter how it occured assuming you boxed and packed it properly. The fact that some items which were part of the sale only aggrevates his culpability as does the fac that he claimed the shutter was not functional and this was incorrect. If he expects a perfect user camera then the least he can do is return it to you in the condition he received it - complete with the other bits.
Offer him the choice. He takes the camera back and you keep the money paid by him. Or you keep the camera and give him a partial refund. Base the latter on your cost of restitution. Thats all you have to do.
Ideas for next time (if there is a next time). Insure and track the package so there can be no doubt about that aspect. If you agree to a refund, put a time limit on itthe offer and make it subject to the camera being returned in the condition it left you or else your costs will be deducted from the refund. Put this in writing. The truth is people look after themselves and even the most well meaning interpret things in ways that benefit themself. Often people are not even reflective enough to even understand that theyare doing this. (I have seen it many many times in my life and guess it is human nature.)
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Landshark
Well-known
I'm of the opinion that the bottom chip MAY have happened while loading film. iffy though.
The chip near the top cover more likely from removing/installing the cover.
Unfortunately(for him) he took it upon himself to send it out for repair and he is responsible for the damage ,indirectly of course.
Like they say in antique stores, "you break it you buy it".
If you replace the vulcanite with leather from Aki Ashi or Cameraleder, It's going to decrease the value of that item significantly.
What was original is no longer so.
Your money, your decision.
My money, the gent owns an M4-2.
The chip near the top cover more likely from removing/installing the cover.
Unfortunately(for him) he took it upon himself to send it out for repair and he is responsible for the damage ,indirectly of course.
Like they say in antique stores, "you break it you buy it".
If you replace the vulcanite with leather from Aki Ashi or Cameraleder, It's going to decrease the value of that item significantly.
What was original is no longer so.
Your money, your decision.
My money, the gent owns an M4-2.
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kdemas
Enjoy Life.
I'd probably just refund the money, less the cost of some new camera leather form someone like Aki-Asahi or Cameraleather. Many ways you can go, the ball is really in your court. 🙂
I'm glad you aren't going to get hosed.
I'm glad you aren't going to get hosed.
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