What the heck happened to used Leica prices???

Avotius

Avotius

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Sorry if this has been beaten to death lately and my forum search missed something but....


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WTF happened to used Leica prices??? I got some stuff I am going to thin out in the next few months and I am doing a little price research and I cannot believe my eyes. Many prices are about 60-80% more than they were what seems like not that long ago.

Yeah yeah, international exchange rates, this and that, but rates have not changed so much to have these kinds of price hikes.

Did I miss something? Solms fell into the sea? Leica lenses proved an aphrodisiac? Somalian pirates hijack a huge shipment of glass?
 
I'm guessing its the effect of the M9's success.Used lenses inparticular have seen an increase in price presumably as a new wave of users brought in by the M9 look for other lenses for the their new camera. Can the increase in Film bodies be linked to this as well ?
There is certainly a new enthusiasm for film so maybe it is a combination of these things.

Chris
 
brainwood said:
I'm guessing its the effect of the M9's success.Used lenses inparticular have seen an increase in price presumably as a new wave of users brought in by the M9 look for other lenses for the their new camera. Can the increase in Film bodies be linked to this as well ?
There is certainly a new enthusiasm for film so maybe it is a combination of these things.

Chris
Click to expand...

Dear Chris,

And, I suspect, film bodies to try with their new lenses. After all, if you can easily afford an M9 and a couple of new lenses, the price of a used film body is pretty trivial.

Cheers,

R.
 
If it were just M9s, I'd expect the bodies to be the same price or lower. It doesn't seem that way, based on those I've talked with who bought their Ms over the last few years.
 
With the M9, you get new Leica customers as well, who will also become interested in legacy technology, as Roger pointed out. Alongside with the overwhelming success of the camera along with the inability of the Solms manufactory to keep up with the demand for lenses (and the camera), one factor accelerates the other.
Funny enough, the Summarits are not too difficult to obtain, so please, Ken Rockwell prayer wheel, keep saying they are all crap 😀

Cheers
Ivo
 
M3 bodies are up about 50% in the last six months. It's not just the M9 effect. I think a lot of the stuff is going to China; I've sold some small bits like filters and viewfinders to China and Hong Kong.

I suppose when you have an economy founded on making cheap tat for the decadent and lazy West, a piece of quality German engineering is a breath of fresh air.

Another anecdote: my usual technician said he serviced an M3 a few weeks ago. Not a black one or anything with any special history, just one in nice condition. The client then sold it on eBay for over two grand (and that's pounds, not dollars).
 
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For the lenses a couple of factors besides the M9. Started with the m43 owners first who wanted to try Leica lenses on Panasonic and Olympus via adapters... thousands of them. Then the NEX accelerated this further... Some Far East enthusiasts prospered through recent developments began to afford for the film Leicas, then naturally for the lenses. Add to these the anticipation of the probability of some new digital rangefinder/s to be introduced other than Leica, just in one year we saw at least 60% increase in prices.
 
With dollar QE and the China bubble (which some think is about to pop) in addition to the possible influience of the new micro 4/3rds people: it's not surprising. However the world economy is looking decidedly shaky at the moment. I wouldn't expect these prices to last, especially if China's housing bubble collapses.
 
I'm one of the people who helped to increase demand. I've been longing for a Leica since I've been on college twenty years ago. Ignored photography completely as the digital revolution started. Came back as digital matured and bought M4/3 gear. Learned, that my PEN can use Leica glass. Remembered my old longing and bought an Industar-61 for just a few Euros as a test. The pictures were great, but the handling was not very smooth. So I bought a CL and a Summicron-C.

Without a M4/3 camera and the possibility to use my Leica lens on it, I would never have bought it.
 
Last summer, I could have had a beautiful, non beaten M3 single stroke for … gasp … 350,- EUR.

That reads: threehundredfifty Euro!

I got lucky, I got the expensive glass, I longed for just in time and hurry at the moment, to pick up my last dream lenses, having have bought a 75 Lux just yesterday.

Once the US and Europe folds, I will sit on my Leica stuff, financing bread and butter of my retirement in 30 years ;-)

What I do find really annoying though is, that everything, I mean everything, that can remotely easily adapted, to be fitted on a Leica is skyrocketing in price.
You won't believe the amounts of old in horrific shape trash of LTM glass, being unloaded at the moment for Leica prices in Chinese camera markets (and else).

A Parisian camera dealer offered me a TOTALLY beaten, half missing Canon 35 1.8 for almost 500 EUR a month ago.
Really beaten formerly off the shelf Canon and Nikon 50 1.8 lenses go for close to 500 EUR often now - two years ago, these would have been thrown in with a deal of an old body for 150 EUR for the set!

Don't feed the dealers!
Don't pay insane prices on gear - let them eat their hats and sit these times out.
Buy from the classifieds.
 
....There's few cameras out there that will outlive a person, and Leica is one of them. For the price of a pro-digital SLR and a couple lenses, someone can get a Leica film body, a great lens, a good film scanner and a couple hundred rolls of film. The digital camera will decrease in value by half within a year or two, where a Leica will hold it's value for it's lifetime (film cameras that is). Not only is it a reasonable investment, but in the end, you can use a Leica for 10 years and sell it for nearly the same price (or in some cases, much more). If you have the money right off the bat, it's like getting a free Leica rental for as long as you want to own it. Not a bad deal, if you ask me.

But as stated above, having digital Leica cameras come out creates a growing market for Leica (and m-mount) glass as well. And with the demand outweighing the number of new lenses coming out, it's simple supply and demand.

This not only applies to Leica. I bought some Zeiss glass (manual focus, etc.) for my Contax body just before all the adapters and stuff came out for these lenses on Canon EOS and Nikon digital SLR bodies and I got about 8 of them for under $2000 (50 1.4, 28 f2, 35 f1.4, 85 f1.4, 100 f2, etc) and 3 of them alone are worth ~$1000 on the used market now. With a sea of consumer-grade lenses out there, many photographers want "the best of the best" to try and stand out from the crowd of everyone and their grandma who owns a digital. It's not just a Leica trend.
 
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brainwood said:
I'm guessing its the effect of the M9's success.Used lenses inparticular have seen an increase in price presumably as a new wave of users brought in by the M9 look for other lenses for the their new camera. Can the increase in Film bodies be linked to this as well ?
There is certainly a new enthusiasm for film so maybe it is a combination of these things.

Chris
Click to expand...
I think the M9's full frame sensor is what made 50's go up so much so rapidly. Before the M9 you could get a current model like new for around $750 because of the M8 crop factor (who wants a 65mm lens?) Now KEH is selling them for above the new price! Granted, they aren't being bought at that price but even cheaper sources are selling for around the cost of a new one.
 
The prices will collapse shortly after the next crisis, earthquake, or terrorist attack. So there is still hope ;-p

I bought a going out of business photo studio for a bargain price in order to resell their gear. Problem was I bought it on September 10, 2001.
 
Leica is following the business strategy of high end Swiss watches: limit supply so they can charge more. With new prices going through the roof used prices follow.
 
Frank Version Two said:
The prices will collapse shortly after the next crisis, earthquake, or terrorist attack. So there is still hope ;-p
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. Japan's recents disasters have only added to the Leica prices right now. If items are rarer (due to parts not being made, etc.), then they go up in price. It would be something that effects the world and not just a region. Spoke to someone at a photo shop in NYC recently who stated that he believes Leica can sell all the products they can make to the Chinese at this point and compared to China and Japan, the US is a small market with no power to demand products from Leica to sell. The guy said they are lucky to get products from Leica and have waiting lists for most lenses. The only items readily available at his shop is the M9-P and 75mm Summarit. Leica also just doesn't have enough trained staff to keep up with demand and training staff takes a long time.
 
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